FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE?
RankPostsTeam
International Star1090No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 20 201212 years255th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
17th May 24 22:4115th Apr 24 19:48LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:25 pm  
Roy Haggerty wrote:
Struggling financially, the stadium drama rolls on and on, and the crowds were still bottom 3 in the comp last year, as in the years before. They're doing better on the pitch, but that doesn't matter, bluntly. Nobody cares what happens on the pitch except our existing fans, and we don't have enough of them. If Wakefield's stadium ever actually happened, and they filled it weekly with 10,000 fans, then I would be clamouring for their justified place in the top flight, whether or not they were winning or losing more. But they aren't. Obviously not in such a dire position as Salford, but it's arguable that Widnes are in less trouble because at least they have a stadium.

Because, with the influence of Big Nigel (ex of Halifax), the RFL decided that their top priority was the possibility of Featherstone, Halifax or Leigh gaining promotion for a year in the top flight. The price for P&R, which was clearly only likely to benefit those three clubs, was a reduction in numbers in the top flight to spread the money thicker amongst the remaining clubs, plus a play-off system which I think everyone expected to so heavily favour the fully professional SL sides that actual P&R was seen as only a theoretical possibility, not a real one.

When the decision was taken in 2013 to reduce from 14 to 12, with P&R to follow, I suspect the SL clubs thought that the clubs to be cut would be London, who were in financial collapse at the time, and one of Salford, Widnes, Castleford or Wakefield, based on normal results. They didn't really want London to go, but were willing to pay that price for the extra cash and London seemed a basket case at the time anyway. Everyone was horrified when Bradford, one of the few genuinely big clubs, then collapsed and disappeared along with London, which suddenly made the league look much smaller and more parochial than expected.

We've since had the worst of all worlds. Hull KR and Leigh have demonstrated through their Yo-Yoing that even when it happens, P&R does nothing for the SL competition apart from swap two poorly-supported no-hoper teams in already-saturated markets. However, the near-disappearance of Catalans shook up the bigger clubs, because they can see that if the French follow London and Bradford, SL looks even more parochial and even less attractive to the broadcasters and sponsors. Meanwhile, the relegation of Hull KR and Leigh, who as fully pro sides weren't supposed to fall through the trapdoor, made the lower-half SL clubs terrified, because it could be them, while the possibility of losing a big, rich club like Warrington was just unacceptable to the other clubs. Hence the P&R had to go, for all the reasons which were given, and ignored, for not introducing it in the first place.

The clubs thought they'd been clever in introducing P&R to pacify the top championship clubs and more traditional-minded fans, without the risk of any big clubs falling foul of it because of the play-off system. In many ways, it was supposed to be much more of a closed shop than licensing ever was, because there was now no way for a new club to threaten the place of one of the poor performers other than the supposedly impossible play-off route. What they ended up with is the loss of one of the biggest clubs - Bradford - along with the loss of London, and the too-near-for-comfort potential loss of Warrington and Catalans. Yet while the system seems to allow for the disappearance of some of our few genuine asset clubs, it has become very apparent that the Leigh/Hull KR/Halifax clubs, while unlikely to add much to SL as a competition, are always likely to act as an effective barrier to entry (or re-entry) for new asset clubs clubs with greater commercial/developmental potential like Bradford, Toulouse and Toronto.

The system is a disaster - a genuine risk to the continuity and maybe survival of major clubs in a sport not overflowing with major clubs, but one which ensures that it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, for any new potential to enter the top flight. It has to change.

The defenestration of Nigel Wood was partly the lower-half clubs acting to ensure their own survival, to try and bring the system to an end. But it was also the upper half clubs trying to find a way of recreating a way into SL for clubs beyond the Leigh/Halifax/Fev group in an attempt to improve the marketability and spread of a sport which they know is stagnant and declining. I have heard that they were furious to discover, after Nigel's departure, that the play-offs were enshrined in the TV contract, which explains why no new system has yet been announced, because there'll have to be serious negotiations with Sky first.

We're in uncharted waters, and I would love to have a mole on the inside of the RFL to fill in the gaps in what I've heard/read/gleaned from various places. But on balance, even if for selfish reasons, I think the bigger clubs are trying to take the sport in the right direction. Lenagan, Moran, Pearson, Davy, and McManus are not stupid men. They want a bigger, more attractive competition, and they recognise that all the current structure has achieved is to foster the game's stagnation.


You must know something that the accountant we have as a chairman doesn't know then?

I understand the stadium issue which is hopefully closer than ever to being resolved but should one thing hold so much water? Not in my opinion.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member12792
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 15 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
22nd Oct 20 11:2121st Oct 20 10:20LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds 13
Signature
I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:44 pm  
wrencat1873 wrote:
Allegedly ??

I think the attendances for Batley v Dewsbury may involve spectators and not just numbers on a piece of paper.


Well until there's credible evidence to suggest that Toronto are fudging their numbers, I don't think it's right to start supposing that the club are.

At the moment, the best evidence that emerges whenever that claim is made seems to be a fan on the internet saying "it didn't look that full on TV".
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star5123
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 07 201113 years306th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th May 24 12:415th Apr 24 17:27LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
WF10 - just a small town in Wakefield

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:50 pm  
little wayne69 wrote:
Not sure how true they are, but there are rumours that Cas's new ground is in trouble and has been put back 18 month due to lack of investment.


Doesn't look like it to me...
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/vi ... -1-9019924
little wayne69 wrote:
Not sure how true they are, but there are rumours that Cas's new ground is in trouble and has been put back 18 month due to lack of investment.


Doesn't look like it to me...
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/vi ... -1-9019924
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach6809
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 09 200519 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th Mar 23 10:2529th Jan 20 06:34LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Carcassonne, France
Signature
Toulouse for Championship in 2017, Super League in 2021!

Avignon for Championship in 2021, Super League in 2022!

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:55 pm  
hooligan27 wrote:
Why does that clown think Toulouse deserve SL. What have they done ever in the championship. Catalans are dropping faster than a prostitute drops her knickers.



Terrific Toulouse was riding high in the Championship last year until injury to both its halves, with no reserve cover, sent it spiraling down. This year the club has some talented cover in the halves, and once its top play maker and its top prop gets on the field it will surely be a good bet for the Super 8s.

On top of that fact about Toulouse's talent and worthiness, there are good reasons why neutral fans should want Toulouse in Super League:

(1) it creates a local derby with Catalans which will massively boost crowds for both Toulouse and Catalans
(2) it will attract more young players in the greater Toulouse area, many of whom will be leaving rugby union for rugby league
(3) by having two French Super League clubs it will strengthen the professionalism and talent of the French national team
(4) it will allow Sky to have a French game every weekend on Sky
RankPostsTeam
International Star7194
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 13 201113 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Jul 19 16:551st Jul 19 19:51LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
east east hull
Signature
einstien said insanity is when a person does the same thing over and over again but expects a different result

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:49 pm  
I'm with jean on this one I've said for long enough if we're going to expand a second French club should be a priority over Toronto or other American teams for me it has more chance to succeed as at least RL is played in France at all levels rather than just making a team from nothing in a country that doesn't really play the game
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain383No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 21 20177 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
6th Sep 18 20:2824th Aug 18 16:31LINK
Milestone Posts
250
500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
Hull KR the pride of East Hull.

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:57 pm  
Call Me God wrote:
Club Union had nothing the year we started SL. The then 5 Nations was a "crown jewel" and attracted interest, but Leicester v Wasps would attract 5k at best.....the fact that Lecester now attract more than any Rugby Club has little to do with the 6 nations and more to do with how that game is run....from the top down. Same in Cricket.....they faltered and T-20 came to the rescue.....the ECB/RFU run their sports well....the RFL don't run Rugby League.....the SL chairmen do.

So a sport from across the pond with a highlights show on C4 has marketed itself better than we have? We've had live club games on FTA for decades......

We don't exist and wo't properly until we are a game played in colleges.....it took soccer 40+ years....

London v Toronto will be of interest. It may well be attended so long as David Hughes isn't still paying for things in London.....if he is then it wouldn't be marketed.

I agree and I believe that the SL clubs should collectively drop 100k into a marketing pot each........


A/
that could be true (I don't know much about RU). The point I was making was now. Yes the clubs have put in alot of work. But when you have an international event every year that's plastered all over the media, that can't but help the club game.

B/
That sport from over the pond. Who's season only last for 3 months (Sept to Dec), Jan is play offs. Has during the season 5 live games on sky (Thurs night, 3 on sun, Mon) everyweek. A highlights show on Sat night after match of the day. And a live game on mainstream radio (talksport), and a 7 hour show before hand on talksport 2 every Sunday. So yes it is completely out marketing us every way.
Mainly because in my opinion we spent years just resting on our laurels. Instead of relentlessly promoting the sport.

C/
You're right. But the question is will we or them be willing to wait for that?

D/
You're probably right. But only as a one off, if it was played 2/3 times a season. People would soon lose intrest.
Him 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 19 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Nov 21 22:467th Nov 21 09:30LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Campaigning for a deep attacking line

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:02 pm  
Adam_Harrison9 wrote:
You must know something that the accountant we have as a chairman doesn't know then?

I understand the stadium issue which is hopefully closer than ever to being resolved but should one thing hold so much water? Not in my opinion.

You can’t seriously take issue with the claim that Wakefield struggle financially. Of course they do.

Even Leeds struggle financially and they’re way ahead of most clubs.
Last edited by Him on Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain2921
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 12 20177 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Sep 19 21:4014th Sep 19 21:21LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:03 pm  
hooligan27 wrote:
And the comment on Toronto v London is attractive wait till they play each other and will see which game got the biggest attendance that or Dewsbury v Batley I can guarantee will be the local derby

How to spectacularly miss the point......but let's look at what you've just posted, regardless of "crowds" not being why the SL chairmen are looking at their options, but rather TV cash and exposure.

Anywhoooo..... Dewsbury v Batley, 2 sides less than 3 miles apart, was a match-up first played 109 years ago and last year attracted a gate of 963 and was not available to watch LIVE on TV or via stream......London v Toronto (209 miles apart....sorry, that's Manchester....3,500 miles apart) met for the first time last season in the Challenge Cup and was attended by 758 fans, whilst being available on TV to watch LIVE in both the UK and in Canada.

So using your flawed logic, those 205 extra fans at Dewsbury are more important than taking the game to new frontiers? And we wonder why the Media treat us like a northern hobby with a few blokes in flat caps with whippets watching :CRAZY:

I am not Toronto's #1 fan, but I'd take them over Dewsbury or Batley any day of the week if we are going to survive, let alone flourish as a viable option in the sports/media marketplace.
dboy 
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach4155
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 12 200519 years108th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
18th May 24 17:4118th May 24 11:55LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Barnsley

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:27 pm  
Tigerade wrote:


That's a pretty desperate video to try and drum up some tenants. Apart from the 4 named, all the other units are unsold.

Enabling works may well start - they'd struggle to get any new tenants without a spade in the ground - but I wouldn't hold my breath that a stadium will be rising from the ground any time soon.
Tigerade wrote:


That's a pretty desperate video to try and drum up some tenants. Apart from the 4 named, all the other units are unsold.

Enabling works may well start - they'd struggle to get any new tenants without a spade in the ground - but I wouldn't hold my breath that a stadium will be rising from the ground any time soon.
RankPostsTeam
International Star4091No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 29 201410 years263rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
5th Dec 22 07:4723rd Nov 22 08:27LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: 10 TEAM SUPERLEAGUE? : Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:50 pm  
hooligan27 wrote:
still more than tornoto v London would draw

You are incorrect. Toronto get bigger crowds than several Super League clubs.

The sides meet this weekend in a top of the table Championship clash.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gazwire, Google Adsense [Bot] and 91 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Virtual Terrace


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Game - Song Titles
Wanderer
36545
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wanderer
58494
11m
Smith out ASAP
RAPIDO
444
13m
Sheffield H
Rafa9
11
14m
Swinton Lions
Prince Buste
55
15m
So What end are we in
matt_wire
2
17m
Tommy Makinson leaving Saints
Mr Snoodle
4
17m
TV Games - Not Hull
B0NES
1792
22m
Dons v Batley Sunday 19/5/24 3pm
Double Movem
10
28m
Rowdy Roddy Tai-per
Philth
1
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
37s
So What end are we in
matt_wire
2
38s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
mwindass
1500
50s
Semi Final
WelshGiant
8
53s
Smith out ASAP
RAPIDO
444
59s
Dons v Batley Sunday 19/5/24 3pm
Double Movem
10
1m
Rowdy Roddy Tai-per
Philth
1
1m
Walters
NSW
6
1m
Tommy Makinson leaving Saints
Mr Snoodle
4
1m
Warrington Wolves Destroy Huddersfield To Secure Wembley Spot
RLFANS News
1
1m
Asiata is going to Hull
Binosh
56
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Rowdy Roddy Tai-per
Philth
1
TODAY
So What end are we in
matt_wire
2
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Destroy Huddersfield To Secure Wembley Spot
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Leeds Rhinos To Meet Saints At Wembley In Womens Challenge Cup Final
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Todays game v Giants
Gazwire
17
TODAY
Tommy Makinson leaving Saints
Mr Snoodle
4
TODAY
Kais Off
micktheleyth
12
TODAY
Walters
NSW
6
TODAY
Wire SL Coaches in a Word
TF and the w
4
TODAY
Problems using this Website
Wires71
5
TODAY
Easy Does It As Wigan Thrash Hull KR To Get To Wembley
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
St Helens Cruise Past York Valkyrie To Make Wembley Final
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Semi Final
[Gareth]
3
TODAY
Matty Ashurst Testimonial Event
TrinityHerit
1
TODAY
Fans Forum
supercat
39
TODAY
Off contract
Dannyboywt1
1
TODAY
OT - Local Landmarks
Maccbull_Big
3
TODAY
Squad for Huddersfield
wirecation
11
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Destroy Hudd..
80
Leeds Rhinos To Meet Saints At..
139
Easy Does It As Wigan Thrash H..
403
St Helens Cruise Past York Val..
260
Katherine Jenkins OBE to perfo..
1047
London Broncos First Win Of 20..
1429
Catalans Dragons Nil The Rhino..
1379
Wigan Warriors Sensational Sec..
1346
Leigh Leopards Destroy Salford..
1507
Warrington Wolves Frustrate Hu..
1576
Widnes Vikings Win Thriller Ag..
2469
Leigh Leopards and Castleford ..
2795
Simple Rhinos Victory Compound..
1933
Stunning Second Half Sees Wiga..
2086
Leeds Rhinos Battle Hard for W..
4073
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Table 'boards.stats_fixtures' doesn't exist