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Re: League structure : Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:13 pm  
Th emain thing against expanding SL to 14 clubs is that the chairmen of those clubs only want a 12 way split of the Sky money. Similarly with the number of fixtures.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:23 am  
I agree with the SL clubs in that we need to go to 1 up 1 down with top 5 play-offs. But as soon as Carter said they would be loop fixtures i had my head in my hands. One of the main problems with Super 8s is that they are too many games against the same clubs. Wigan/Saints derby could end up playing each other 6/7 times.

I feel its being rushed through. This is half the reason licensing and the 8s didn't work. Licensing didn't have definitive rules set out. Wakefield, Bradford & Crusaders should have all been thrown out when they went into admin. But because this wasn't set out, the RFL ended up making it up as they went along. FAIL. The 8s, again many people had worries about the 8s, but the RFL only looked at the positives, didn't look at the negatives, waved a load of cash at the clubs and thry voted it through fail.

Its happening again. They're trying to rush it in for 2019, have come up with the ridiculous loop fixtures which we all know don't work, and could still see a wigan/saints derby 7 times in a season creating fan fatigue (which is one of the main flaws of the 8s.) we'll be back here again in 3 years wondering what went wrong when crowds shrink because they're bored of the same fixtures. I'd rather have a other year of the 8s, but take out time as a sport to get a proper structure sorted that will stay for ghe next decade
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I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:34 am  
Bull Mania wrote:
I agree with the SL clubs in that we need to go to 1 up 1 down with top 5 play-offs. But as soon as Carter said they would be loop fixtures i had my head in my hands. One of the main problems with Super 8s is that they are too many games against the same clubs. Wigan/Saints derby could end up playing each other 6/7 times.

I feel its being rushed through. This is half the reason licensing and the 8s didn't work. Licensing didn't have definitive rules set out. Wakefield, Bradford & Crusaders should have all been thrown out when they went into admin. But because this wasn't set out, the RFL ended up making it up as they went along. FAIL. The 8s, again many people had worries about the 8s, but the RFL only looked at the positives, didn't look at the negatives, waved a load of cash at the clubs and thry voted it through fail.

Its happening again. They're trying to rush it in for 2019, have come up with the ridiculous loop fixtures which we all know don't work, and could still see a wigan/saints derby 7 times in a season creating fan fatigue (which is one of the main flaws of the 8s.) we'll be back here again in 3 years wondering what went wrong when crowds shrink because they're bored of the same fixtures. I'd rather have a other year of the 8s, but take out time as a sport to get a proper structure sorted that will stay for ghe next decade


Carter wants loop fixtures because it's easy for him. The more he can flog the talent, with as many games as he can get away with, the less effort he has to invest in actually trying to sell the games he has. He says that the 'short notice' of the eights system makes it hard to sell tickets, yet there were 16 days between the fixtures being announced and Wakefield's first home game - ample time to come up with a sales strategy for that event (as evidenced by much smaller clubs like London Broncos, who have been actively promoting this game with a part-time operation).

Carter is undoubtedly good at what he does, which is bean counting. There is nothing wrong with that, but let's never pretend that he is in any way a visionary that can take the sport forward. His MO is protectionism and cutting the costs, not seeking out the opportunities.

And this whole proposal by Elstone and crew is about protectionism. It's about removing risk for the smaller clubs, allowing them to bumble along investing as little in business growth as possible and reducing their cost base without consequence, and for the bigger clubs it is about how much of the pie they can take, rather than how they can make the pie bigger. Anybody who doubts Ian Lenaghan's motives behind this simply needs to look at Wigan's accounts and take note of the reporting of an "operating loss of £605,286" due to a "significant reduction in sponsorship income" due to a "loss of a major sponsor" - on top of the previous year's £180k+ loss.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:50 am  
The Rfl and super league really need to get this right. Get it wrong and the game will haemorrhage more and more fans. Nobody wants loop rounds. Every fan simply wants straight round robin home away fixtures, nobody wants more than a top 5/6 play off’s. nobody wants any more than 1 up one down. Its simple nobody wants convoluted fixture list or convoluted play off p&r systems. I do not care whether its 12 or 14 teams but i just want a full home away fixture list printed in november so i can plan work/leisure/hobbies/holidays around my RL.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:33 am  
You need "loop" fixtures, because without them, you have 11 home games and 23 in total.

That does not give a sustainable income stream.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:11 pm  
dboy wrote:
You need "loop" fixtures, because without them, you have 11 home games and 23 in total.

That does not give a sustainable income stream.

But having loop fixtures means lower crowds people stay away more and pick and choose what games to go to more. The shorfall can eacily be made upby a bigger average crowd and more big event once a season head to head games.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 pm  
rollin thunder wrote:
The Rfl and super league really need to get this right. Get it wrong and the game will haemorrhage more and more fans. Nobody wants loop rounds. Every fan simply wants straight round robin home away fixtures, nobody wants more than a top 5/6 play off’s. nobody wants any more than 1 up one down. Its simple nobody wants convoluted fixture list or convoluted play off p&r systems. I do not care whether its 12 or 14 teams but i just want a full home away fixture list printed in november so i can plan work/leisure/hobbies/holidays around my RL.


You've asked everyone connected to the game and every RL fan then? There's quite a few I know personally and posters on this and other forums who would disagree with you on at least one of the things you suggest aren't wanted.
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I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:17 pm  
dboy wrote:
You need "loop" fixtures, because without them, you have 11 home games and 23 in total.

That does not give a sustainable income stream.



Only if you assume a zero-growth model. If that's what we're doing, we should probably pack the whole thing in now.

Clubs need to focus on how the sport generates more with less, not with how thinly they can spread the jam.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:10 pm  
Mr Dog wrote:
You've asked everyone connected to the game and every RL fan then? There's quite a few I know personally and posters on this and other forums who would disagree with you on at least one of the things you suggest aren't wanted.

Nobody will agree on everthing, i personally think franchise is better than p&r but some people think it should be a fundamental right. Some owople think 1/ teams some 14, sone think top 4 or even top 3 sime lks ne favour 5 or 6 teams. But answer me this do you no anybody who favours playing everyone home and away then another round playing everyone once plus an extra magic weekend round, thus playing one side minimum of 4 times. Its a convoluted ludicrous idea.
And i would wager that most would agree and be in favour of a system close to what i suggest. No body wants loop rounds and very few at all want a mid season spit.
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Re: League structure : Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:11 pm  
Mr Dog wrote:
You've asked everyone connected to the game and every RL fan then? There's quite a few I know personally and posters on this and other forums who would disagree with you on at least one of the things you suggest aren't wanted.

Out of interst what is the one main point you and others disagree on.
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