[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:19 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

That is small compared to the stadiums of five Super League clubs -- Wigan, Warrington, Hull FC, Huddersfield, and Leeds when completed -- which have capacities of 20,000 or more.

Warrington is only 15k, thanks for pretending your paying attention.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am  

Did well to get 5k glorified training session

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:44 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The promotion of the fixture (or lack of it) is/was a total disgrace and the "our league" system even worse.
With limited promotion the fixture should have been a sell out.

Our sport is just amateur in all of its administration and it's difficult to see just who's responsibility it is to organise this stuff.
It's mickey poor from all involved, RL should be embarrassed on getting 5000 attendance for the first home international since the world cup, utterly embarrassed.

Of course there are people on RL Fans who won't have the RFL held responsible for anything ever, I notice they are somewhat quiet on this thread, of course it could always be the clubs fault ?

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 am  

Salford red all over wrote:

Of course there are people on RL Fans who won't have the RFL held responsible for anything ever, I notice they are somewhat quiet on this thread, of course it could always be the clubs fault ?

Indeed, it's just a pity that those being very well paid to run our sport are just not seeing what is right in front of them.
Brian Barwick was at the game and surely, he has to go back to HQ and ask what the F### is going on.

They (The RFL) are losing money and events (or non events like Wednesday are an indicator as to how the sport is doing and the bald truth is, not very well at all and there just appears to be a total malaise all over the game.

How the hell can we expect blue chip sponsors to want to invest in such a mickey mouse organisation.

It appears that those right at the top of the game are happy to take their wedge and deliver nothing in return, it's pathetic.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:49 am  

Salford red all over wrote:

Of course there are people on RL Fans who won't have the RFL held responsible for anything ever, I notice they are somewhat quiet on this thread, of course it could always be the clubs fault ?

I'm guessing I'm one who falls into that bracket, so I'll bite.

I've never said that the RFL should be immune from blame or criticism, and I've never said that it is not without its faults. My issue is and always has been how the RFL is used as a lightning rod for problems with the game where the clubs have either a shared or greater level of culpability.

Yes, Wednesday was a shambles, but let's not pretend that this was in any way some sort of blue-ribboned event where the world's best were putting on a show. It was a glorified training session that was never going to attract the sort of audience that someone at BMW, Audi or Land Rover would be falling over themselves to get in front of.

The fundamental issues are that we have a poor product and that we're trying to sell it to the wrong people. Does the RFL have some reponsibility for that? Undoubtedly so, but that responsibility is shared with many other stakeholders. The RFL is not responsible for the marketing, the matchday experience, ticketing, merchandising and the player quality at the 12 Super League clubs - and they are all bigger factors in how successful this sport is than how Red Hall promotes a glorified warm-up game.

Yes, the likes of Barwick et al need to start paying for their seat, but we shouldn't let that hide the fact that there are many others who are not pulling their respective weights to a similar degree.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:02 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

I'm guessing I'm one who falls into that bracket, so I'll bite.

I've never said that the RFL should be immune from blame or criticism, and I've never said that it is not without its faults. My issue is and always has been how the RFL is used as a lightning rod for problems with the game where the clubs have either a shared or greater level of culpability.

Yes, Wednesday was a shambles, but let's not pretend that this was in any way some sort of blue-ribboned event where the world's best were putting on a show. It was a glorified training session that was never going to attract the sort of audience that someone at BMW, Audi or Land Rover would be falling over themselves to get in front of.

The fundamental issues are that we have a poor product and that we're trying to sell it to the wrong people. Does the RFL have some reponsibility for that? Undoubtedly so, but that responsibility is shared with many other stakeholders. The RFL is not responsible for the marketing, the matchday experience, ticketing, merchandising and the player quality at the 12 Super League clubs - and they are all bigger factors in how successful this sport is than how Red Hall promotes a glorified warm-up game.

Yes, the likes of Barwick et al need to start paying for their seat, but we shouldn't let that hide the fact that there are many others who are not pulling their respective weights to a similar degree.

Sorry Bramley but, the responsibility for "selling" events like Wednesday DOES sit with the RFL and whichever partners they choose to market /sell the event (and paying whoever they do to organise the broadcast).

I think that Leigh did their job very well, staffed the bars, stewarding etc, etc.

Dont let The RFL off the hook as this gives them an excuse for next time.

Whether England are playing France, Australia, Shaw Cross Sharks doesn't matter.
I realise that they will throw a lower budget at marketing games against "lower" opposition but, this was a full international game and what they did (or didn't do) is just so bloody poor and, it's a symptom of how "good" they are.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:37 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry Bramley but, the responsibility for "selling" events like Wednesday DOES sit with the RFL and whichever partners they choose to market /sell the event (and paying whoever they do to organise the broadcast).

I think that Leigh did their job very well, staffed the bars, stewarding etc, etc.

Dont let The RFL off the hook as this gives them an excuse for next time.

Whether England are playing France, Australia, Shaw Cross Sharks doesn't matter.
I realise that they will throw a lower budget at marketing games against "lower" opposition but, this was a full international game and what they did (or didn't do) is just so bloody poor and, it's a symptom of how "good" they are.

Where have I said that I'm letting the RFL off the hook?

Don't fall into the trap of seeing Wednesday night as the result of a one-off failing. It's the result of a series of issues over the medium-long term that have resulted in this sport having a lower profile in the media, a declining audience, declining player pool, a declining commercial influence and a generally poorer product to sell. EVERY stakeholder in this sport carries responsibility for that. For two long the entire sport has been selling itself to fewer and fewer people, people who are only interested in buying tickets if there is a discount to be had, and it has been trying to sell what many percieve as an inferior product (both in terms of what we used to sell, and what other sports sell). Wednesday night is what happens when you try and do that for too long.

Can the RFL throw more at promoting England v France in Leigh? Absolutely, but there's also an return on investment to be had here. The product on offer clearly wasn't strong enough to attract the current RL-watching audience and if you're going to spend money on attracting a new audience, is England v France really the game you want to try and hook them with?

By all means judge the RFL on Wednesday night, but there is a much bigger picture to look at here.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:51 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

Where have I said that I'm letting the RFL off the hook?

Don't fall into the trap of seeing Wednesday night as the result of a one-off failing. It's the result of a series of issues over the medium-long term that have resulted in this sport having a lower profile in the media, a declining audience, declining player pool, a declining commercial influence and a generally poorer product to sell. EVERY stakeholder in this sport carries responsibility for that. For two long the entire sport has been selling itself to fewer and fewer people, people who are only interested in buying tickets if there is a discount to be had, and it has been trying to sell what many percieve as an inferior product (both in terms of what we used to sell, and what other sports sell). Wednesday night is what happens when you try and do that for too long.

Can the RFL throw more at promoting England v France in Leigh? Absolutely, but there's also an return on investment to be had here. The product on offer clearly wasn't strong enough to attract the current RL-watching audience and if you're going to spend money on attracting a new audience, is England v France really the game you want to try and hook them with?

By all means judge the RFL on Wednesday night, but there is a much bigger picture to look at here.

There definitely is a bigger picture, although RL is in danger of not being in the picture at all.
I agree that everyone in the game carries some responsibility for the lack of profile.
However you suggest there was little interest from the current RL audience but, they need to know that there is a game on in the first place and I know 100's of RL fans and many of them didn't even know this fixture was taking place ??

Indeed, had it not been for the selection of the 2 lads from Wakefield, I may not have known either.

Having then found that it was taking place, I tried to register with ourRL and the system didnt work !!
The ticket line was only open till 5, but, there was no way of actually knowing this and then their own system crashed.

The bottom line is that NOBODY is banging the drum with the various media outlets, certain newspapers no longer cover the sport at all and even the BBC have us so far down the shaft that we lack exposure.

I dont know where Eric Perez has disappeared to but, he certainly managed to generate interest in RL in a country where the game had never featured and we are severely lacking somebody like that over here to whip up some interest and at least keep the game on the back pages of the papers and occasionally on TV.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:23 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

There definitely is a bigger picture, although RL is in danger of not being in the picture at all.
I agree that everyone in the game carries some responsibility for the lack of profile.
However you suggest there was little interest from the current RL audience but, they need to know that there is a game on in the first place and I know 100's of RL fans and many of them didn't even know this fixture was taking place ??

Indeed, had it not been for the selection of the 2 lads from Wakefield, I may not have known either.

Having then found that it was taking place, I tried to register with ourRL and the system didnt work !!
The ticket line was only open till 5, but, there was no way of actually knowing this and then their own system crashed.

The bottom line is that NOBODY is banging the drum with the various media outlets, certain newspapers no longer cover the sport at all and even the BBC have us so far down the shaft that we lack exposure.

I dont know where Eric Perez has disappeared to but, he certainly managed to generate interest in RL in a country where the game had never featured and we are severely lacking somebody like that over here to whip up some interest and at least keep the game on the back pages of the papers and occasionally on TV.

And this is where we find some common ground. As much as the earlier posters had be down as a "the RFL are blameless and this is all the club's fault" type, there's a lot of culpability on the RFL.

If you're hanging your broadcast hopes on a mobile app, the app needs to be stress-tested long before the event - that's basic. Making it easy to buy tickets? Ditto.

Personally I did know about the game, and I've received enough marketing around it through email, social media ads and so on for me to make a decision not to bother with it.

But as we seem to agree, this is part of a long-term malaise that both the RFL and the clubs have to carry the can for. We have a declining audience, we try and sell to an audience that repeatedly shows an unwillingness to buy, and the perception of the product is poor.

This was a weakened England team vs a weak France team on a Wednesday night, held in a town that most people would probably struggle to point to on a map. I'd take some convincing to believe that such a proposition would appeal to more than 5-6k paying customers. The RFL needs to use its budget for this sort of thing strategically. There's no-little return to be gained fromt throwing excess resource on a game that holds little appeal to either the existing fan base or to new audiences - especially with a three-match series with NZ around the corner.

People commonly confuse advertising and marketing on this forum and when they talk about "marketing" they actually mean advertising. But all of the advertising in the world does not make a poor product worth buying - it just talks about that poor product to more people. England v France in Leigh on a Wednesday night is a poor product. The game needs to make itself more marketable, and that's the responsibility of everyone involved.

Re: Our league : Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:58 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

And this is where we find some common ground. As much as the earlier posters had be down as a "the RFL are blameless and this is all the club's fault" type, there's a lot of culpability on the RFL.

If you're hanging your broadcast hopes on a mobile app, the app needs to be stress-tested long before the event - that's basic. Making it easy to buy tickets? Ditto.

Personally I did know about the game, and I've received enough marketing around it through email, social media ads and so on for me to make a decision not to bother with it.

But as we seem to agree, this is part of a long-term malaise that both the RFL and the clubs have to carry the can for. We have a declining audience, we try and sell to an audience that repeatedly shows an unwillingness to buy, and the perception of the product is poor.

This was a weakened England team vs a weak France team on a Wednesday night, held in a town that most people would probably struggle to point to on a map. I'd take some convincing to believe that such a proposition would appeal to more than 5-6k paying customers. The RFL needs to use its budget for this sort of thing strategically. There's no-little return to be gained fromt throwing excess resource on a game that holds little appeal to either the existing fan base or to new audiences - especially with a three-match series with NZ around the corner.

People commonly confuse advertising and marketing on this forum and when they talk about "marketing" they actually mean advertising. But all of the advertising in the world does not make a poor product worth buying - it just talks about that poor product to more people. England v France in Leigh on a Wednesday night is a poor product. The game needs to make itself more marketable, and that's the responsibility of everyone involved.

Something that has to be done is to have tickets for ALL RL events sold through the clubs, something that the other code is very successful at.
They allocate tickets right the way down the RU pyramid and those clubs that are successful in selling these tickets gain priority for the "important" games, hence there is a desire from the clubs to do their bit.
As an absolute minimum, all SL, Championship and League 1 clubs should be involved in getting their fans to buy tickets to Internationals, Cup Finals, Magic, Summer Bash etc, obviously keeping a certain number back for supporters of the actual finalists and this should go down through the RL pyramid, with some kind of "reward" for those clubs that are successful in selling tickets.