Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:43 pm 
100% League Network
100% League Network
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 12:04 pm
Posts: 14081
Location: Chester
Last Son of Wigan wrote:I honestly think it comes down to what cap space he takes. In a capped sport he's an asset if he's not taking up much space. Otherwise I agree.


Maybe so but 7 & 9 are key positions I'd expect to be filled by a sides top players not a squad member type of player. If his role was back up hooker far enough. You could bring him on to tackle himself into the ground if the game warranted it. I think his 100% commitment and effort endears him to fans and coach alike and I don't think the coach has any plans on treating him as a squad player but will give him the number 7 (or 9) as first choice.






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:52 pm 
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 3355
DaveO wrote:Maybe so but 7 & 9 are key positions I'd expect to be filled by a sides top players not a squad member type of player. If his role was back up hooker far enough. You could bring him on to tackle himself into the ground if the game warranted it. I think his 100% commitment and effort endears him to fans and coach alike and I don't think the coach has any plans on treating him as a squad player but will give him the number 7 (or 9) as first choice.


Like I said for me it's about salary cap. But I agree, 7 and 9 are key positions, I don't think either him or Tommy are what I'd want in a 9, but Wigan don't employ the same tactics as I would for a 9. At Wigan it's all about fast accurate passing from DH to to forwards for a role on, or to the 6 and 7 on either sides, Powell can manage this and tackle his heart out, if he's not on that much, then I can see why he's at the club.

But I agree, Wane sees more in him than I do, giving him the 7 jersey.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:57 pm 
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:38 am
Posts: 21748
Location: WIGAN
DaveO wrote:I see this said quite a lot but why? His limitations as a scrum half also apply when he plays 9, i.e. his lack of pace and poor passing. You still need these skills as a hooker in the modern game.


Tactically in our system the hooker doesn’t do any running anyway (rightly or wrongly) so a lack of pace isn’t an issue. I also didn’t notice as many poor passes from the floor or with that bit more time from dummy half as I am doing at scrum half. His work at hooker this year in fact has been good with him working well close to the opposition line and bringing our props on to some quality short balls which have lead to try’s. Don’t get me wrong he’s no Terry Newton at hooker but he’s a pretty good option.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:32 pm 
Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:19 pm
Posts: 5436
Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
NickyKiss wrote:Tactically in our system the hooker doesn’t do any running anyway (rightly or wrongly) so a lack of pace isn’t an issue. I also didn’t notice as many poor passes from the floor or with that bit more time from dummy half as I am doing at scrum half. His work at hooker this year in fact has been good with him working well close to the opposition line and bringing our props on to some quality short balls which have lead to try’s. Don’t get me wrong he’s no Terry Newton at hooker but he’s a pretty good option.


Currently he's the best 9 at the club and we look a better side with their IMO






Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock

"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"

[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]

Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"

I thanked him and went on my Merry way!

RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:15 am 
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:25 am
Posts: 3005
Location: Just about to go do some work!
DaveO wrote:I see this said quite a lot but why? His limitations as a scrum half also apply when he plays 9, i.e. his lack of pace and poor passing. You still need these skills as a hooker in the modern game.

I see your point, Dave but I reckon the thinking comes from the fact he is solid in defense, passes well from the floor to get the team rolling (as opposed to having to make creative passes as a half) and the fact he can do an 80 minute shift which gives us an extra bench option. Very few teams run with 'creative' hookers. Cameron Smith, for sure, but not too many in Superleague. Most of the best are defensive and organising (Hull) or defensive and dummy half runners (Saints/Warrington). This is where the argument falls down a little for me as he is neither an organiser nor much of a dummy half runner which really leaves him there mainly for his defense, which he does well to be fair. Is that enough on it's own though?

People have said that he's as good/better than Tommy but I can't agree. Tommy has added a running threat that we haven't had for some time. More than that, he engages the line before passing which has made a huge difference to our attack in my opinion. He is also an organiser, although we might not always see it from the stands. I think it telling that Sam T. said it was Tommy's decision to go for the drop goal at Leeds against the advice coming from the bench.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:44 am 
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:38 am
Posts: 21748
Location: WIGAN
I’ve been very pleased with Tommy so far. He isn’t running the ball just for the sake of it and he isn’t a scooter like a Roby or Clark but when he does take it to the line, there’s a real purpose in what he’s doing. He’s looking for gaps, for opportunities to get others in to space and he’s also clever enough to try and win a penalty against a defence that’s retreated slowly.

It’s a tough one the 9 position going forward past this season. As things stand I’d like to see Leuluai kept on but he’s clearly not got as much in the tank as Powell. If Powell isn’t doing at least 60+ minutes a game at nine then I don’t think his impact is high enough to share the roll but I’d be loathed to lose him and then there’s Ganson, who needs more game time.

I personally don’t think we need all three.,

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:33 am 
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 3355
I think at there is honest confusion with how our team plays.

We seem to have the same structure as most but have subtle differences to other teams. At wigan we have:

-FB who's basically an old fashioned 6. They are a ball player and link as a second receiver off the half to feed the edge players SR, centre and winger. they operate on both side of the pitch and are arguably the most important attacker on the pitch
-a left half and right half. often first receivers they control opposite side of the attack and no longer play as a pair.
-a 13 who links the play, can be a first receiver who helps the passing between half backs
-a 9 who's job is quick distribution to the 6, 7, 13, not really to scoot.
-props who's job is to make quick yards, contact, find your feet and PTB as quick as possible not allowing the opposition to reset their line.


-Playing Sam as HB takes away his freedom and ability to use both flanks in attack.
-Lockers is massive, why? cos he links the play, tackles in the middle and can cart the ball in like a prop, basically, he can do it all.

I even think the positional names are mis-leading.

Easier to understand how we play with some name changes:

FB-Second pivot
wingers-wingers
centres-outside backs
-second row-edge players
half back-right half
stand off-left half
prop/13-middles
hooker-dummy half.

Personally, I know what changes I would like to make to our playing style, but currently when I discuss team selections, I go off the structure and tactics we implement.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:27 am 
100% League Network
100% League Network
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 12:04 pm
Posts: 14081
Location: Chester
Last Son of Wigan wrote:We seem to have the same structure as most but have subtle differences to other teams. At wigan we have:

-FB who's basically an old fashioned 6. They are a ball player and link as a second receiver off the half to feed the edge players SR, centre and winger. they operate on both side of the pitch and are arguably the most important attacker on the pitch
-a left half and right half. often first receivers they control opposite side of the attack and no longer play as a pair.
-a 13 who links the play, can be a first receiver who helps the passing between half backs
-a 9 who's job is quick distribution to the 6, 7, 13, not really to scoot.
-props who's job is to make quick yards, contact, find your feet and PTB as quick as possible not allowing the opposition to reset their line.


I think that is correct. The trouble is I think every coach in SL also knows it and doesn't expect it to change much. In particular the role of the 9 seems set in stone at times and there is a lack of variance. This only seems to change when we go behind and are playing catch up. Makes me wonder if the players decide to ditch the rigid game plan then.

Quote:-Playing Sam as HB takes away his freedom and ability to use both flanks in attack.
-Lockers is massive, why? cos he links the play, tackles in the middle and can cart the ball in like a prop, basically, he can do it all.


It might restrict his freedom but given he's better at the job than Powell it becomes a debate about do you want him at 7 because he's a better half back or not? I think a lot would say Sam at 7 and Esacre at 1 is better than Powell at 7 and Sam at 1. As to Lockers being massive I agree and this just heightens concern over his inevitable retirement and his fairly regular absences from the team now. We don't really have an equivalent replacement who can link the play as he does but continue to try and play as if we have when he is not on the pitch.






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:30 am 
Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:30 pm
Posts: 1311
Location: Oldham.
It's hard to criticise Powell because he does very little wrong. That said I don't think much is asked of him, he's basically a catch and pass man, no real kicking game and no real attacking threat running with the ball. He does do what Wane asks of him, so any criticism needs to be aimed at the coach, it's his choice to go with Powell, knowing his strengths and weaknesses.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scrum half
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:41 am 
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:45 pm
Posts: 3355
DaveO wrote:I think that is correct. The trouble is I think every coach in SL also knows it and doesn't expect it to change much. In particular the role of the 9 seems set in stone at times and there is a lack of variance. This only seems to change when we go behind and are playing catch up. Makes me wonder if the players decide to ditch the rigid game plan then.

It might restrict his freedom but given he's better at the job than Powell it becomes a debate about do you want him at 7 because he's a better half back or not? I think a lot would say Sam at 7 and Esacre at 1 is better than Powell at 7 and Sam at 1. As to Lockers being massive I agree and this just heightens concern over his inevitable retirement and his fairly regular absences from the team now. We don't really have an equivalent replacement who can link the play as he does but continue to try and play as if we have when he is not on the pitch.


Moving Sam from 1 would be the biggest error for me. He's a natural footballer, he knows when to link in the line, when to throw the cut out pass and when to engage the edge defenders. He's not got the pace to open up gaps like he once had, but he's light years ahead of Escare in this regard. Plus, he's better at organising the D with communication to the line. You lose this when moving him into the halves, not to factor in how many more tackles he'll have to get through, teams would target him in the line to tire him, hurt him etc.

Sam Powell is a great defensive 7. With Powell you don't have to protect him and move him out wide, he has experience of defending closer to the action without issue, this is underrated. However for me a 7 has to threaten the line, they need pace to go through the gap, and have great passing ability, Powell doesn't question the line, he doesn't put fear into the opposition with ball in hand.

Bateman v Leeds was impressive. can handle a range of positions including a ball playing lose. I was impressed with his lateral movement linking the halves, he can do it, he even, dare I say it, reminded me of Andy Faz with is movement, he's more than just a cart horse as a 13.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next





It is currently Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Retro.rlfans.com is no longer supported, we suggest that you try www.rlfans.com or i.rlfans.com or m.rlfans.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashton Bears, Brick with eyes, Grimmy, jaws1, leg_end, moto748, RichieS, Singing Warrior, southernpie, thepimp007, warrior1872 and 163 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:39 pm
POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORDYOUR TEAM
4,720,3461,58176,8104,559SET
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.
TODAY 10:50
NRL
SOUTHS
v
BRISBANE
TODAY 19:45
SUPER LEAGUE
SALFORD
v
ST. HELENS
TOMORROW 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
WIDNES VIKINGS
v
WIGAN WARRIORS
Fri 4th May 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
SALFORD
Sat 19th May 17:15
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
WARRINGTON
Fri 25th May 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
HULL KR
v
WIGAN WARRIORS
Thu 7th Jun 19:45
SUPER LEAGUE
WAKEFIELD
v
WIGAN WARRIORS
Sat 16th Jun 17:00
SUPER LEAGUE
HULL FC
v
WIGAN WARRIORS
Thu 28th Jun 19:45
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
LEEDS RHINOS
Fri 6th Jul 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
WARRINGTON
Thu 12th Jul 19:45
SUPER LEAGUE
HUDDERSFIELD
v
WIGAN WARRIORS
Thu 19th Jul 19:45
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
ST. HELENS
Fri 27th Jul 20:00
SUPER LEAGUE
WIGAN WARRIORS
v
CATALAN DRAGONS
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)






28

.