Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:08 pm  

Looking at players who have been available over the years that have come to Super League or who have moved between SL clubs whilst we have put our faith in players who have turned out not to become top class players does our faith in the youth structure sometimes hinder us?

The question comes to light tonight particularly from the performance of Snyd and Clark. Players who have been on the market, British and top quality yet we appear to have not made any attempt to sign them.

In the case of Snyd, who I feel would suit our system very well we are favouring Powell. When Clark was available we were investing in Logan Tomkins.

Whilst I appreciate you can't have it all ways I do wonder when quality payers become available do we as a club have too much faith in potential, which is often not realised.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:42 pm  

jonh wrote:

Looking at players who have been available over the years that have come to Super League or who have moved between SL clubs whilst we have put our faith in players who have turned out not to become top class players does our faith in the youth structure sometimes hinder us?

The question comes to light tonight particularly from the performance of Snyd and Clark. Players who have been on the market, British and top quality yet we appear to have not made any attempt to sign them.

In the case of Snyd, who I feel would suit our system very well we are favouring Powell. When Clark was available we were investing in Logan Tomkins.

Whilst I appreciate you can't have it all ways I do wonder when quality payers become available do we as a club have too much faith in potential, which is often not realised.

There have been one or two times over the past few seasons where I have thought we need to bring someone in to strengthen a certain area, but the club have gone with a youth player. In fact it's the exact same situation now in that we have let Goulding go and I (along with plenty of others) feel we need an adequate replacement but the coaching staff feel we have enough at the club without looking elsewhere.

It is a difficult one, I remember thinking we should have been in for Joel Moon when Carmont left, but where would that have left Thornley? We were linked with Briscoe as Pat Richards' replacement, but that would have meant no place for Joe Burgess who's broke in to the team and been excellent.

The club won't get it right every time, but I think they've got it right enough for us not to question their judgement. Also, don't forget we have paid transfer fees for the likes of Bateman, Taylor, Smith and Green over the last few seasons, so we are doing plenty of outside recruitment alongside promoting our own youngsters.

A McIlorum/Clark hooker combination would be mouthwatering btw, but unfortunately his move to Wire has been one of the worst kept secrets of RL for some time now.

I'd also add, Sneyd was on nobody's radar at the beginning of this season (including his own club), he may well kick on and become a top quality player but he could also be a bit of a one season wonder playing in a very good Cas team. If it's true that Hull have paid over a 100k for him then it's a good bit of business from the Dr IMO. Powell is a bit younger and is looking a very good player and I'm happy for him to get the chance to show he can be Green's long-term replacement.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:58 pm  

Trophies in the cabinet say we've got it right in the past but we need to be careful we continue to get it right.

Clark is an interesting one isn't he. We haven't been in for him but if you look at it we'd be signing an expensive player to play part games because we've got a 60-70 minute hooker in Micky Mac already. He's too good to be playing for only 40 mins and Micky Mac is too important to our system and style of play to be doing the same.

It's a simple case that sometimes you can't fit all the players you'd like in to a 17 man side. It'd be great to have two top class hookers in the squad but a salary capped sport doesn't allow that (or it shouldn't). Now if a prop version of Daryl Clark became available and we didn't go in for them I'd be very worried and annoyed. There is only so much faith you can have in your youth system because you can't afford to turn down obvious options just because you feel a misplaced loyalty to a homegrown player who's clearly not as good. I dont think we've done that though as of yet.

As for Sneyd he's hardly worth a mention IMO. He's riding the crest of a wave at Cas but isn't anything special IMO.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:16 pm  

I think the exact opposite, our youth system is the reason we have won so many trophies, and stands us in excellent stead for the future as it gets harder and harder to sign top quality players due to the salary cap and relative strength of the NRL. Unfortunately I don't think many fans recognise how important our youth system is, indeed there seems to be an expectation amongst a lot of our fans that we should make a signing for every player who leaves.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:27 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

I think the exact opposite, our youth system is the reason we have won so many trophies, and stands us in excellent stead for the future as it gets harder and harder to sign top quality players due to the salary cap and relative strength of the NRL. Unfortunately I don't think many fans recognise how important our youth system is, indeed there seems to be an expectation amongst a lot of our fans that we should make a signing for every player who leaves.

I agree. We need to get the balance right and if we do then our youth system sets us apart. If we have players in house who Wane feels are good enough to replace the lads departing then great but we always need to look outside the club as well

Green and Taylor leaving are two prime examples of losing players and needing to get the right balance. IMO we have players already who can replace Green and they deserve a crack at doing so If and when Taylor goes though we don't have good enough replacements within the cub and simply must buy from outside.

Supplement the juniors with good quality players from outside the club in the positions we need and we'll be fine.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:34 pm  

Since the change of culture at the club with the introduction of Maguire, we've won half of all the major trophies available (whether you count the hub cap as major or not). We do ok.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:55 pm  

Did Maguire rely on youth? He brought 3 world class players with him.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:03 am  

jonh wrote:

Did Maguire rely on youth? He brought 3 world class players with him.

Not in his first season though. We won the GF in 2010 with pretty much the same team Noble had in 2009.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:02 am  

jonh wrote:

Did Maguire rely on youth? He brought 3 world class players with him.

World class? They weren't even good enough for the Austrlia/New Zealand team so not sure how they can be world class. Anyway:

He dropped Roberts for Goulding (later replaced by Charnley)
When Gleeson left he put J.Tomkins at centre and gave Farrell a regular bench spot.
McIlorum was promoted to starting hooker to replace Riddell.

At the time there were plenty on here banging on about how we would struggle if we didn't sign a quality winger, centre and hooker.

He also gave his new signings shirts outside the starting 13, thus emphasising that signings need to earn a starting spot at Wigan just like any other player.

Re: Our youth system, does it hold us back? : Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:11 am  

we'd be lost without it