Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:45 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I'm sorry for anyone who's been a victim of domestic abuse - including your friend - but your one example doesn't really stack up as an argument; I prefer the data from Portugal, where drugs were decriminalised in 2001, to much opprobrium; some years later, the public health benefits are unquestionable. They did other things too, before anyone feels the need to point that out, but the central plank of the policy was to decriminalise drugs and treat them as a health issue rather than a legal one - they now have the second lowest number of overdose deaths per million citizens in the world, HIV infections have plummeted, and there hasn't been the dramatic rise in drug use that was predicted.

It's a difficult thing to accept if you're very opposed to the drugs that we've decided are illegal - but our current approach is clearly not working; it keeps the production and supply underground and unregulated, and makes criminals of people who don't really deserve to be - and it has no appreciable impact on the availability or use of substances.

Like I’ve said Bren, I don’t care about them or what happens to them. I work in a prison 95% full of drug related crimes who keep coming back. People can’t get it into their heads that they still need money to acquire the drugs even if made legal and that’s where the crime starts.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:19 pm  

So all people who use drugs are scum and thieves, glad we cleared that up, it's like the dark ages on here sometimes, what a load of tosh, I have 4 people that I know of in my close friends who have taken recreational drugs for years marijuana, speed, coke, ecstasy, acid and mushrooms, they are all in their 40's all successful in their chosen professions, not one of them has ever had the sack or been in any trouble whatsoever and lead normal life's but they chose drugs to be their escape on a weekend rather than alcohol. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. We will eventually catch up and decriminalise marijuana at the very least and rightly so, the health benefits that it brings will guarantee that I believe, the propaganda that drugs has suffered over the years is criminal in my mind.

A friend of mine is epileptic and until about 4 years ago probably averaged around 5/6 fits per year, constantly in and out of hospital every time he injured himself, since finding a potent concentrate of marijuana and smoking it he has had one fit in 4 years and that was just 2 weeks ago, could be a coincidence but as he lost his supply 2 months ago I doubt it very much. Why are people out their suffering chronic pain when there is an endless supply of a free natural drug which could halo millions around the world? Stinks to high heaven. Pun intended.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:07 pm  

Always exceptions to a rule

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:22 pm  

inside man wrote:

So all people who use drugs are scum and thieves, glad we cleared that up, it's like the dark ages on here sometimes, what a load of tosh, I have 4 people that I know of in my close friends who have taken recreational drugs for years marijuana, speed, coke, ecstasy, acid and mushrooms, they are all in their 40's all successful in their chosen professions, not one of them has ever had the sack or been in any trouble whatsoever and lead normal life's but they chose drugs to be their escape on a weekend rather than alcohol. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. We will eventually catch up and decriminalise marijuana at the very least and rightly so, the health benefits that it brings will guarantee that I believe, the propaganda that drugs has suffered over the years is criminal in my mind.

A friend of mine is epileptic and until about 4 years ago probably averaged around 5/6 fits per year, constantly in and out of hospital every time he injured himself, since finding a potent concentrate of marijuana and smoking it he has had one fit in 4 years and that was just 2 weeks ago, could be a coincidence but as he lost his supply 2 months ago I doubt it very much. Why are people out their suffering chronic pain when there is an endless supply of a free natural drug which could halo millions around the world? Stinks to high heaven. Pun intended.

Just on that, one of the most remarkable things I've seen, is a 20 year long Parkisnson's sufferer who couldn't control his shakes at all. He then had some marijuana oil, this was over in the US and wthin 5 minutes or so after he was told to just lay down and relax, it was like he had siuddenly got rid of the disease, unreal to see that. All at the fraction of the cost of the medicine he was taking and not doing anything.
Anyone interested in watching the video put in utube 'Man with Parkinson’s uses marijuana for the first time — and the results are amazing'. There's loads of similar videos on the subject as well.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:44 pm  

Big lads mate wrote:

Like I’ve said Bren, I don’t care about them or what happens to them. I work in a prison 95% full of drug related crimes who keep coming back. People can’t get it into their heads that they still need money to acquire the drugs even if made legal and that’s where the crime starts.

That's all part of the wider problem though imo. plenty wouldn't come back if most drugs were decriminalised, that's not to make them completely legal. Just where people get caught with possession amounts, rather than supply amounts of drugs, you don't go straight to jail. I will say I agree there are those particularly with the Heroin and Crack problems, that are going to do almost anything to get the drug, that's where you're going to get constant offenders, due to burglaries and shoplifting. This is where for me Drug help, support & treatment isn't nowhere near as good as it could be in this Country. Ateotd what's cheaper, treament for a user for month, or sticking someone away again for being caugght with a gram of smack and doing a 1/2 year stretch. Obviously there's going to be those that don't want to get clean, or feel they're mentally not equipped to kick the drug.

Anyway each to their own.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:06 pm  

inside man wrote:

So all people who use drugs are scum and thieves, glad we cleared that up, it's like the dark ages on here sometimes, what a load of tosh, I have 4 people that I know of in my close friends who have taken recreational drugs for years marijuana, speed, coke, ecstasy, acid and mushrooms, they are all in their 40's all successful in their chosen professions, not one of them has ever had the sack or been in any trouble whatsoever and lead normal life's but they chose drugs to be their escape on a weekend rather than alcohol. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. We will eventually catch up and decriminalise marijuana at the very least and rightly so, the health benefits that it brings will guarantee that I believe, the propaganda that drugs has suffered over the years is criminal in my mind.

A friend of mine is epileptic and until about 4 years ago probably averaged around 5/6 fits per year, constantly in and out of hospital every time he injured himself, since finding a potent concentrate of marijuana and smoking it he has had one fit in 4 years and that was just 2 weeks ago, could be a coincidence but as he lost his supply 2 months ago I doubt it very much. Why are people out their suffering chronic pain when there is an endless supply of a free natural drug which could halo millions around the world? Stinks to high heaven. Pun intended.

You don't get to pick and choose the laws that suit you. It doesn't matter how morally superior you think your mates are.

They may be all the things you say they are but that's absolutely no excuse - who gives them the right.

I happen to agree as regards your point on Canabis as medication. It's a scam by drugs companies. So sort it through the ballot box if you feel that strongly, that's what it's for.

Sorry but what your calling the dark ages is actually the opposite. The law should be blind and implemented without regard to the perpetrators 'niceness' or 'popularity. The law must be above personality, when it's used selectively you end up with anarchy or worse.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:22 pm  

Vasty, myself and most others on these forums care very little what you think. Have a great day you amazing person.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:52 am  

vastman wrote:

You don't get to pick and choose the laws that suit you.

Correct - but thankfully, at least for now, it's perfectly acceptable to talk about those laws which you think are wrong.

Personally, after decades of the so-called war on drugs, which has patently and clearly had no positive impact on any of the things it purports to deal with, I think it's time for a new approach; other countries have tried it, with good results, and there's now enough empirical data to cherry pick the best ideas from around the world, to create a UK solution.

There are many reasons why that won't happen for the foreseeable future of course, not least the frothing, Daily Mail attitude that all drugs are bad; and since we're in an age where some people believe that their opinions trump facts, it's very hard to get past. I hope we do though. I like this, from Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance in the US:

The true challenge is learning to live with drugs so that they cause the least harm. An effective strategy needs to establish realistic objectives and criteria for evaluating success or failure, and must focus on reducing the death, disease, crime and suffering associated with both drug use and drug policies.

Seems sensible to me.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:03 am  

Shifty Cat wrote:

That's all part of the wider problem though imo. plenty wouldn't come back if most drugs were decriminalised, that's not to make them completely legal. Just where people get caught with possession amounts, rather than supply amounts of drugs, you don't go straight to jail. I will say I agree there are those particularly with the Heroin and Crack problems, that are going to do almost anything to get the drug, that's where you're going to get constant offenders, due to burglaries and shoplifting. This is where for me Drug help, support & treatment isn't nowhere near as good as it could be in this Country. Ateotd what's cheaper, treament for a user for month, or sticking someone away again for being caugght with a gram of smack and doing a 1/2 year stretch. Obviously there's going to be those that don't want to get clean, or feel they're mentally not equipped to kick the drug.

Anyway each to their own.

Take from me Shifty, rehabilitating isn’t working and never will as the real figures out there will never come to light and that goes for all crimes. Everyone will have a view on how to clamp down on it and I’m sure legalising it won’t stop the hardened user, but again that’s my opinion.

Re: You are not trying to tell me : Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:06 pm  

inside man wrote:

So all people who use drugs are scum and thieves, glad we cleared that up, it's like the dark ages on here sometimes, what a load of tosh, I have 4 people that I know of in my close friends who have taken recreational drugs for years marijuana, speed, coke, ecstasy, acid and mushrooms, they are all in their 40's all successful in their chosen professions, not one of them has ever had the sack or been in any trouble whatsoever and lead normal life's but they chose drugs to be their escape on a weekend rather than alcohol. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. We will eventually catch up and decriminalise marijuana at the very least and rightly so, the health benefits that it brings will guarantee that I believe, the propaganda that drugs has suffered over the years is criminal in my mind.

A friend of mine is epileptic and until about 4 years ago probably averaged around 5/6 fits per year, constantly in and out of hospital every time he injured himself, since finding a potent concentrate of marijuana and smoking it he has had one fit in 4 years and that was just 2 weeks ago, could be a coincidence but as he lost his supply 2 months ago I doubt it very much. Why are people out their suffering chronic pain when there is an endless supply of a free natural drug which could halo millions around the world? Stinks to high heaven. Pun intended.

Some sense Drugs and some of the poop peddled about them is ridiculous. Like any chemical substance will be abused and used inappropriately by a lot of people. I think sometimes people just think people take drugs and then the drugs ruin that person. Usually there are deep rooted problems in that person's mentality or life/lifestyle long before the drugs come into it. The drugs are the symptom and not the cause. Most addicts will tell you that.