Re: The break up of the Union : Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:25 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I would let them have a referendum but with certain conditions. They must swop from the pound to an alternative currency. There has to be a hard border, there will be tariffs on goods from Scotland. No financial support from the rest of the UK, no SNP members in the UK Government etc.

Queen Nicola might thinks she holds sway but let the reality kick in of what life might be like outside of the union and see if the people really want.

I dont think that any of your "demands" will be a problem, in fact, I'm sure that they would be delighted with them.
However, once again, England supplies more products and services into Scotland than they supply to us. Therefore, despite their apparent weak position, you may need to think properly about this.
Interestingly, you appear aggressive to the Scots wanting to leave the UK and yet IIRC, you were pretty upset when the EU got the hump with us wanting to leave their Union - hilarious

Personally, I dont see how Scotland would manage as an independent nation but, equally, despite nearly all of their MP's being from the SNP, they actually have no power in the UK Parliament whatsoever and as a nation have been ignored and shabbily treated by Westminster over very many years, leading to the rise in the SNP's popularity.

It's sure to get interesting and can you imagine if the UK were hit with tariffs and at some point in the future, the Scots and N. Irish were not.

As I say, it's interesting to see that some who were in favour of Brexit, dont believe that Scotland should be "allowed" to go it alone.
Especially Mr Johnson

Re: The break up of the Union : Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:29 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I dont think that any of your "demands" will be a problem, in fact, I'm sure that they would be delighted with them.
However, once again, England supplies more products and services into Scotland than they supply to us. Therefore, despite their apparent weak position, you may need to think properly about this.
Interestingly, you appear aggressive to the Scots wanting to leave the UK and yet IIRC, you were pretty upset when the EU got the hump with us wanting to leave their Union - hilarious

Personally, I dont see how Scotland would manage as an independent nation but, equally, despite nearly all of their MP's being from the SNP, they actually have no power in the UK Parliament whatsoever and as a nation have been ignored and shabbily treated by Westminster over very many years, leading to the rise in the SNP's popularity.

It's sure to get interesting and can you imagine if the UK were hit with tariffs and at some point in the future, the Scots and N. Irish were not.

As I say, it's interesting to see that some who were in favour of Brexit, dont believe that Scotland should be "allowed" to go it alone.
Especially Mr Johnson

How has Scotland been shabily treated?

Re: The break up of the Union : Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:58 pm  

IR80 wrote:

How has Scotland been shabily treated?

They've had to endure six Tory Prime Ministers out of the last seven for starters.
All but the one you kept reminding us only had one eye.
Thats the problem with the aspiring English working class. They'd rather align themselves with a couple of ponces who went to Eton than somebody who only went to a state comprehensive.

Re: The break up of the Union : Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:01 am  

WIZEB wrote:

They've had to endure six Tory Prime Ministers out of the last seven for starters.
All but the one you kept reminding us only had one eye.
Thats the problem with the aspiring English working class. They'd rather align themselves with a couple of ponces who went to Eton than somebody who only went to a state comprehensive.

why does it matter where someone was educated?

typical politics of envy, Thatcher went to state school by the way, daughter of a shop keeper. But crack on, we all need whippets, flat caps and a lack of aspiration.

Re: The break up of the Union : Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:20 am  

IR80 wrote:

why does it matter where someone was educated?

typical politics of envy, Thatcher went to state school by the way, daughter of a shop keeper. But crack on, we all need whippets, flat caps and a lack of aspiration.

Well I'm definitely aware you're a big fanboy of the divisiveness and inequality that has reverberated since her tenure terminated.
As for envy, nah, but I can also play your game if you want?
She was one fooking ugly dog.
Fair play to her though, she's even got the underclass, she was creator-in-chief of, voting for Boris.
You nearly couldn"t make it up.

Re: The break up of the Union : Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:25 pm  

IR80 wrote:

How has Scotland been shabily treated?

They are shabbily treated all of the time.
Policies in Westminster are not made or changed for he benefit of Scotland and regardless of how many MP's the Scottish people vote in, they are powerless to change anything, which comes from having a population of 5,000,000 out of a total UK population of 70,000,000.
In many ways, they would have been better off voting Labour or Tory and at least then, their MP's could influence government policy.

Also, despite, as a nation, voting heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, as a nation, they will leave with the rest of the UK.

Of course, assuming that once independent they wanted to and could rejoin the EU, their MP's (or MEP's) would have little influence on EU policy as they would become a smaller cog in a much larger wheel but, I dont think that anyone can argue that they have no influence at Westminster and never will have.

If you were unhappy at home, you would be able to leave and it would be your choice.
Bizarrely, much like an angst ridden teenager, who isn't happy, they have to ask permission.

The "one nation" Tory rule seems like it is only concerned with one nation, England with the rest just having to toe the line.

Re: The break up of the Union : Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:45 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

They are shabbily treated all of the time.
Policies in Westminster are not made or changed for he benefit of Scotland and regardless of how many MP's the Scottish people vote in, they are powerless to change anything, which comes from having a population of 5,000,000 out of a total UK population of 70,000,000.
In many ways, they would have been better off voting Labour or Tory and at least then, their MP's could influence government policy.

Also, despite, as a nation, voting heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, as a nation, they will leave with the rest of the UK.

Of course, assuming that once independent they wanted to and could rejoin the EU, their MP's (or MEP's) would have little influence on EU policy as they would become a smaller cog in a much larger wheel but, I dont think that anyone can argue that they have no influence at Westminster and never will have.

If you were unhappy at home, you would be able to leave and it would be your choice.
Bizarrely, much like an angst ridden teenager, who isn't happy, they have to ask permission.

The "one nation" Tory rule seems like it is only concerned with one nation, England with the rest just having to toe the line.

An interesting view, but remember the people of Scotland voted to stay in the Union, in yet another "once in a generation" vote.

Re: The break up of the Union : Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:50 pm  

IR80 wrote:

An interesting view, but remember the people of Scotland voted to stay in the Union, in yet another "once in a generation" vote.

Yes they did, just as they were told by a previous Tory leader that, we "would not be leaving the EU"
How many people voted to remain as part of the Union based on Cameron's guarantee or, should the people of Scotland thought "lying tort T***" and assumed that he was lying - maybe that was the start of the new Tory style

Re: The break up of the Union : Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:57 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Yes they did, just as they were told by a previous Tory leader that, we "would not be leaving the EU"
How many people voted to remain as part of the Union based on Cameron's guarantee or, should the people of Scotland thought "lying tort T***" and assumed that he was lying - maybe that was the start of the new Tory style

Cameron got it wrong, no denying that. We should have voted, as the UK, to remain, but we didn't.

Re: The break up of the Union : Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:17 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I dont think that any of your "demands" will be a problem, in fact, I'm sure that they would be delighted with them.
However, once again, England supplies more products and services into Scotland than they supply to us. Therefore, despite their apparent weak position, you may need to think properly about this.
Interestingly, you appear aggressive to the Scots wanting to leave the UK and yet IIRC, you were pretty upset when the EU got the hump with us wanting to leave their Union - hilarious

Personally, I dont see how Scotland would manage as an independent nation but, equally, despite nearly all of their MP's being from the SNP, they actually have no power in the UK Parliament whatsoever and as a nation have been ignored and shabbily treated by Westminster over very many years, leading to the rise in the SNP's popularity.

It's sure to get interesting and can you imagine if the UK were hit with tariffs and at some point in the future, the Scots and N. Irish were not.

As I say, it's interesting to see that some who were in favour of Brexit, don't believe that Scotland should be "allowed" to go it alone.
Especially Mr Johnson

As has been pointed out before - you are either in favour of democracy or not - you can't be democratic and only support democracy when you win. Why should 5m hold sway over the other 65m its not how it works. Why should 48 MPs have any power against 600 MPs - it reflects the population mix too c7%. its odd that they are even in the UK parliament given they have their own assembly?

I appreciate for you lefties - you know what's best for everyone - and anyone who has a different view is simply stupid but that's dictatorship not democracy. No doubt you think Corbyn won the argument and how could these thick northerners not see it!!

I have no issue with Scotland leaving - As you quote says - I would let them have the vote. What was must avoid is the misunderstanding that "people didn't know what they were voting for". It is certain that Queen Nicola will only push the perceived positives of leaving the union.

On a positive Labour will never get into power again without the help of the big number of MPs from Scotland. Plus the weeble will wobble back off to Skye