|
 |
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"So how does huge spending on public services follow what Thatcher was doing which was the opposite i.e. reducing the size of the state?'"
It was financed privately. Wander round Darwen or Blackburn and see how many NHS buildings are labelled with "Capita". What did Labour donor, Mr Aldridge have to do to get his company name linked to the NHS? Build an "academy".
That's the Labour legacy, let me profit from the NHS and I'll build you a school.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18094 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"It was financed privately. Wander round Darwen or Blackburn and see how many NHS buildings are labelled with "Capita". What did Labour donor, Mr Aldridge have to do to get his company name linked to the NHS? Build an "academy".
That's the Labour legacy, let me profit from the NHS and I'll build you a school.'"
Are you really saying the massive amount of extra money spent on health and education by Blair/Brown's Labour was all really a myth it didn't actually happen?
The institute for fiscal studies suggest they did - spending on health and education went from 10.1% of national income to 14.8% by 2010.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"Are you really saying the massive amount of extra money spent on health and education by Blair/Brown's Labour was all really a myth it didn't actually happen?'"
No, I'm saying look where it came from, how it was financed. What was it spent on. It's quite interesting, that for all this extra money the spent on health, the life expectancy gap between the richest and poorest grew for the first time in decades.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18094 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"No, I'm saying look where it came from, how it was financed. What was it spent on. It's quite interesting, that for all this extra money the spent on health, the life expectancy gap between the richest and poorest grew for the first time in decades.'"
It was financed from taxation and/or government borrowing - that much is proven.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"It was financed from taxation and/or government borrowing - that much is proven.'"
Well, yes, but every single thing the government buys is financed from taxation and/or borrowing.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18094 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Well, yes, but every single thing the government buys is financed from taxation and/or borrowing.'"
You are saying it was all private investment not government money? So how do you explain the move from 10% to nearly 15% if it is not increased government spending on health and education?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"You are saying it was all private investment not government money? So how do you explain the move from 10% to nearly 15% if it is not increased government spending on health and education?'"
No, I'm not. I'm asking what's the proportion of spending through taxation or private investment. If in the past a new hospital was paid 100%/95%/90% or whatever through taxation is it the same now?
If a government spends an extra 5% on health and education, which isn't going to be chicken feed, just where did the money come from?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"... That's the Labour legacy, let me profit from the NHS and I'll build you a school.'"
PFI was created by Major's government.
And it was Thatcher's government that started privatising the NHS, bit by bit – selling off 'soft services', for instance, so that in order for private companies to profit from cleaning hospitals, they had to axe half the cleaners to start with. It is, of course, pure coincidence that, shortly after this, rates of c-diff and MRSA started climbing.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote Mintball="Mintball"PFI was created by Major's government.
And it was Thatcher's government that started privatising the NHS, bit by bit – selling off 'soft services', for instance, so that in order for private companies to profit from cleaning hospitals, they had to axe half the cleaners to start with. It is, of course, pure coincidence that, shortly after this, rates of c-diff and MRSA started climbing.'"
Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not.
Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.
|
|
Quote Mintball="Mintball"PFI was created by Major's government.
And it was Thatcher's government that started privatising the NHS, bit by bit – selling off 'soft services', for instance, so that in order for private companies to profit from cleaning hospitals, they had to axe half the cleaners to start with. It is, of course, pure coincidence that, shortly after this, rates of c-diff and MRSA started climbing.'"
Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not.
Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not...'"
It's what New Labour does/did. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there was a reason that one of the first things Blair did, on becoming leader, was to get rid of Clause 4 from the party's constitution – the clause that tied the party, at least ideologically, to public/state ownership.
In office, Blair's government continued down the same ideological, economic route set in motion by Margaret Thatcher: continued privatisation, continued deregulation etc.
The only substantial difference – the 'third way' – was actually spending something on public services, although not to the record levels that became a myth that the party left unchallenged for political reasons at the time. But by 1997, hospitals and schools etc were in crisis in terms of infrastructure after nearly two decades of cuts, privatisation etc. Hence the newspaper headlines about old people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.'"
Since the rise of hospital infections, there have been vast numbers of attempts to get infection rates down (handwashes everywhere has been a recurring favourite) – and blame levied all over the shop (too many visitors etc).
Back in 2009, UNISON sponsored a study in a Scottish hospital where it was found that just one extra cleaner on a ward cut infection rates. The experiment lasted for six months on one ward and was then repeated on another ward for the same amount of time.
The problem, if you will, is that staff cost money: handwashes, on the other hand, make profits for someone. If infections kill patients, then any cost (compensation) is likely to be socialised (as was also being agreed when there were efforts to privatise and offshore medical secretaries – a move that had serious consequences for patient outcomes when tried in the US some years ago, and huge financial costs in terms of compensation etc). There are reasons that the obvious and – you would think – easiest options are often the ones least likely to be put into practice.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8337947.stmStory[/url.
Additionally, though not mentioned in that story, UNISON has also repeatedly called for a return to proper sisters on wards, and for them to be given control over cleaning staff. The situation that remains in place at present is that medical staff cannot call a cleaner to do something, because they are not the cleaner's line manager – someone at the private company is – so it's more complicated than it should be to have cleaning services respond to need determined by medical staff.
|
|
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not...'"
It's what New Labour does/did. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there was a reason that one of the first things Blair did, on becoming leader, was to get rid of Clause 4 from the party's constitution – the clause that tied the party, at least ideologically, to public/state ownership.
In office, Blair's government continued down the same ideological, economic route set in motion by Margaret Thatcher: continued privatisation, continued deregulation etc.
The only substantial difference – the 'third way' – was actually spending something on public services, although not to the record levels that became a myth that the party left unchallenged for political reasons at the time. But by 1997, hospitals and schools etc were in crisis in terms of infrastructure after nearly two decades of cuts, privatisation etc. Hence the newspaper headlines about old people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.'"
Since the rise of hospital infections, there have been vast numbers of attempts to get infection rates down (handwashes everywhere has been a recurring favourite) – and blame levied all over the shop (too many visitors etc).
Back in 2009, UNISON sponsored a study in a Scottish hospital where it was found that just one extra cleaner on a ward cut infection rates. The experiment lasted for six months on one ward and was then repeated on another ward for the same amount of time.
The problem, if you will, is that staff cost money: handwashes, on the other hand, make profits for someone. If infections kill patients, then any cost (compensation) is likely to be socialised (as was also being agreed when there were efforts to privatise and offshore medical secretaries – a move that had serious consequences for patient outcomes when tried in the US some years ago, and huge financial costs in terms of compensation etc). There are reasons that the obvious and – you would think – easiest options are often the ones least likely to be put into practice.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8337947.stmStory[/url.
Additionally, though not mentioned in that story, UNISON has also repeatedly called for a return to proper sisters on wards, and for them to be given control over cleaning staff. The situation that remains in place at present is that medical staff cannot call a cleaner to do something, because they are not the cleaner's line manager – someone at the private company is – so it's more complicated than it should be to have cleaning services respond to need determined by medical staff.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12909 | Hull FC |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Seeing as I haven't got anything better to do today and I feel like a little mischief I am getting suited and booted and going down my local Aldis to ask the shop manager if it's possible to talk to his staff with the intent of seeing if his workers are at all interested in some form of union representation.
They were all informed yesterday that they will be losing their jobs if they don't 'buck their ideas up'.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 18611 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2025 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote WIZEB="WIZEB"Seeing as I haven't got anything better to do today and I feel like a little mischief I am getting suited and booted and going down my local Aldis to ask the shop manager if it's possible to talk to his staff with the intent of seeing if his workers are at all interested in some form of union representation.
They were all informed yesterday that they will be losing their jobs if they don't 'buck their ideas up'.'"
If true (the last bit) that is terrible, not least because Aldi are doing so well.
Our local Aldi is really doing well and has taken money off the nearby Morrisons.
But perhaps the parent company are meanies after all.
At Christmas all the staff of our Aldi dressed up festively. I asked if this was a company initiative and was told that it was and that in the true spirit of Christmas each member of staff had had to pay for their own costumes.
Nice!
|
|
|
 |
|