Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:16 pm  

So because the London Bridge attack was caused by an Islamic supporter the Conservatives are within their rights to be islamophobic. I note that they have three supporters being investigated for being anti Semitic.
You have a party funded by Russian oligarchs and are sitting on a report regarding Russian involvement why.
I see you have been reading the conservative leaflet mummy will be proud.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:00 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Labour have a number of problems - its leadership for a start - two old Marxists doesn't really fill the country with hope. The women have been a liability. Their new give away a day isn't credible - nobody believes it.

Most understand you have to encourage business otherwise wealth generation simply evaporates. Labour simply want to cane business - it isn't just the increase in CT its the sneeky stuff - reduction of capital allowances. If you want business to invest that is the last thing you should be doing. Who is going to give up 10% of the shares so workers can inherit those for free? Or are companies simply going to issue additional shares and dilute everyone's investment? The idea that a cleaner can sit on the board of sizable PLC and make any kind of meaningful contribution defies any kind of logic - its this kind of unrealistic thinking that hits the credibility of Labour.

Brexit has been a complete disaster for Labour - its policy hasn't an ounce of credibility - I have many times who is going to campaign for Leave? Ian - the NUM paid off my mortgage - Lavery? another fine upstanding member of the Labour party. Corbyn love of the IRA has come back to haunt him and dulled him.

Labour calls the Tories on Islamaphobia - perhaps given what has happened on London Bridge the Tories should be apprehensive about a religion that promotes killing of non-believers and tangibly demonstrates its beliefs. Not seen many Jews stabbing and blowing people up - what are Labour so afraid of?

On austerity Labour are hardly on a strong footing - it was what the Tories inherited from Labour that forced austerity!!

On education - how can you have a system where there are no checks and balances on standards - Labour want to remove all school inspections, Stats etc - why is that because a few teaching unions don't like their members being monitored. I don't like Gove but he was the best education minister since Thatcher - he toughened up the exams - no bad thing.

We see at SWT and the universities what increased union power will lead to - good luck with that

Corbyn is not trusted on national security - he wants the Russian interference report published because he thinks it will hurt the Tories. Next thing he is using a Russian leaked document to make a feeble point on the NHS - you simply could make this stuff up - it would be funny if it weren't so tragic. Then he leaks another document on the Brexit deal - and he wonders why he isn't trusted on security!!

Then you have all the lies - everytime any of them open their mouth a lie emerges - they talk about Boris but they are equally bad if not worse.

Lesss said about Momentum and Wokeness the better.

Fortunately your rather extreme views on most issues are a long way from the mainstream in British society.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:40 pm  

You say Labour have a credibility problem however the polls suggest Corbyn is trusted more than Johnson.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Fortunately your rather extreme views on most issues are a long way from the mainstream in British society.

Depends what you term "mainstream society".

You presume the majority view the world as you do. You might wonder, then, why Labour aren't romping home.

And this is where I see a huge paradox with traditional working class Labour support. I don't hear many working class folk expressing any love for freedom of movement and mass immigration, I don't hear any positive language around Islam, I don't hear any love for the EU. Working class folk don't generally care for "progressive" and "woke" standards of political correctness. A spade is a spade. You can take your offence and fook right off, is pretty much how it goes.

Go into a pub in some of our beloved towns across the north and the language will be anything but woke or correct. Most working class folk don't care about comments like 'letterbox' burkas. Most chuckle and say 'that's naughty', and get on with their lives. Actually, just as most non-working class folk with more important things to worry about do.

Academics, journalists, left politicians and other lefty types simply can't accept or understand any of this. That's why when I predicted a leave vote in 2016, every single one of my London-based "woke" colleagues saw their 4rse at me. Guess who was a smug bast'rd the next time I saw them.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:06 am  

If you can find a pub that is still open after 9 years of Conservative rule.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:04 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

On austerity Labour are hardly on a strong footing - it was what the Tories inherited from Labour that forced austerity!!

I thought this narrative had fizzled out. Austerity wasnt forced because of Labour. The financial crash of 2008 was a global crash following dodgy sub prime mortgages in the US packaged with fraudulent credit ratings packing as CDO's that were worthless. The bubble burst and it led to a tightening of credit ratings across Europe with banks realising the safe mortgages they bought were worthless so a decrease in lending (credit crunch) and shortage in liquidity. We had to bail out the banks to the tune of 500 billion. The tax payer footed the bill with 10 years of austerity and Labour/immigration took the blame.

Public services slashed; the NHS brought to its knees through underfunding; police, fire and nursing numbers cut. Libraries closed down. A record number of foodbanks opened and used; record numbers of homelessness; record numbers of in-work poverty (that is people who are in full-time employment, working every hour they can, and still having to claim benefits and use foodbanks); we’ve heard a headteacher in Morecambe break down as they tell us about children scavenging in bins in schools for an old apple core, because they are that hungry (look it up).

Four million children in poverty in the 5th richest economy in the world. Food bank use in 2009 was at 47,000. In 2018 that figure stands at 1.6 million. 1.6 million! 4 million children in poverty. Incredible! We are all one accident away from falling on tough times. Meanwhile, we have seen the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich that we have ever seen. How can that sit right with anyone?

Global scientific consensus tells us we have 11 years to reverse climate change before it is too late. And yet we have a prime minister who could not be bothered to debate it. At the last leaders debate on ITV, climate change was never even brought up! Fritnin!

I see a lot of crap thrown at the way of Jeremy Corbyn. For whatever you think of his leadership or his policies between him and Alexander Boris De Feffal Johnson who has the interest of the working class at heart? vexed off at the personal attacks on Corbyn who is - if nothing else - a genuine, compassionate man, full of integrity, who has stood up for the most vulnerable in society his entire life. He has fought racism of every kind (including anti-Semitism) his entire life.

By comparison, and in the last 10 years alone, Boris Johnson has called gay men “tank top wearing bum boys”, he has called Muslim women “Letterboxes” and “bank robbers”, he has called black people “picanninies” with “watermelon smiles”. He said that the city of Liverpool was full of people always wanting to be the victims (about Hillsborough). He has been sacked twice for dishonesty. He is a serial adulterer. He is on record arranging for a journalist to be beaten up. He has banned the Daily Mirror from his tour bus. Refused to take part in certain debates. Dodged the Andrew Neil interview. Expelled members of his own party for voting against him. In the words of Basil Fawlty "otherwise okay?".

Political correctness has gone too far. I'm not a fan of the far left. I believe you can still be liberal and have common sense. Some of Corbyn's shadow cabinet I'm not dancing for joy at (like Diane Abbott) but with what is front of you ask yourselves this; Who really has the interest of the working class at heart? I have not found it difficult to choose which party to vote for when faced with that question.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:15 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

The problem is that people are obsessed by Brexit at the expense of everything else. They may get Brexit but they will also get further austerity made worse by Brexit. I expect if when we find out that the report today is accurate he will blame the E.U.

Our politics are obsessed with Brexit. This is the Brexit election. Corbyn has been absolutely played on this. He should have passed the withdrawal bill and then had an election. If memory serves didn't parliament pass the withdrawal bill through to its second reading (on it's way to becoming law) and then Johnson called an election? Now why did he do that?

Because Brexit is the Lynton Crosby dead cat strategy. Without it (and if you park it from your mind) the horrific tenure of this Conservative government is left hopelessly exposed. They don't have a leg to stand on. Nurses numbers, police numbers, education, the NHS - all public services, their policies are ripped to shreds. They are now. From the ridiculous nurses recruitment through to the policing numbers through to the number of hospitals built. Day time TV anchors have done damage there. It is why Johnson will not stand up to scrutiny of Neil & co and yet it doesnt matter because Brexit is the fallback, the scapegoat.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:35 am  

Cronus wrote:

Depends what you term "mainstream society".

You presume the majority view the world as you do. You might wonder, then, why Labour aren't romping home.

And this is where I see a huge paradox with traditional working class Labour support. I don't hear many working class folk expressing any love for freedom of movement and mass immigration, I don't hear any positive language around Islam, I don't hear any love for the EU. Working class folk don't generally care for "progressive" and "woke" standards of political correctness. A spade is a spade. You can take your offence and fook right off, is pretty much how it goes.

Go into a pub in some of our beloved towns across the north and the language will be anything but woke or correct. Most working class folk don't care about comments like 'letterbox' burkas. Most chuckle and say 'that's naughty', and get on with their lives. Actually, just as most non-working class folk with more important things to worry about do.

Academics, journalists, left politicians and other lefty types simply can't accept or understand any of this. That's why when I predicted a leave vote in 2016, every single one of my London-based "woke" colleagues saw their 4rse at me. Guess who was a smug bast'rd the next time I saw them.

I know you're massively triggered by people who show empathy to others but, if you actually read what Sal P posted, it was mostly a list of right wing economic ideas which polls show aren't particularly popular in this country.

You've gone off on one down a culture war line which is what you seem to love but which wasn't really the point.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:54 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

So because the London Bridge attack was caused by an Islamic supporter the Conservatives are within their rights to be islamophobic. I note that they have three supporters being investigated for being anti Semitic.
You have a party funded by Russian oligarchs and are sitting on a report regarding Russian involvement why.
I see you have been reading the conservative leaflet mummy will be proud.

If you could comprehend it would be a big help - so I will spell it out in simple terms that even you and your mummy will be able to understand.

How many attacks have we had in the country from the Jewish community? How many attacks have we had from the Muslim community? Which branch of religion do you think offers the greatest threat of physical injury to the population of the UK?

So would you say a fear of Islam has more tangible substance than a fear of Judiasm? I ask again why are Labour so scared of the Jews.

As for funding - the Labour party draws most of its funds from pretty hard left trade unions who are currently mobilising followers to disrupt political gatherings - democracy isn't something Labour really want.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:27 am  

cadoo wrote:

I thought this narrative had fizzled out. Austerity wasnt forced because of Labour. The financial crash of 2008 was a global crash following dodgy sub prime mortgages in the US packaged with fraudulent credit ratings packing as CDO's that were worthless. The bubble burst and it led to a tightening of credit ratings across Europe with banks realising the safe mortgages they bought were worthless so a decrease in lending (credit crunch) and shortage in liquidity. We had to bail out the banks to the tune of 500 billion. The tax payer footed the bill with 10 years of austerity and Labour/immigration took the blame.

Public services slashed; the NHS brought to its knees through underfunding; police, fire and nursing numbers cut. Libraries closed down. A record number of foodbanks opened and used; record numbers of homelessness; record numbers of in-work poverty (that is people who are in full-time employment, working every hour they can, and still having to claim benefits and use foodbanks); we’ve heard a headteacher in Morecambe break down as they tell us about children scavenging in bins in schools for an old apple core, because they are that hungry (look it up).

Four million children in poverty in the 5th richest economy in the world. Food bank use in 2009 was at 47,000. In 2018 that figure stands at 1.6 million. 1.6 million! 4 million children in poverty. Incredible! We are all one accident away from falling on tough times. Meanwhile, we have seen the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich that we have ever seen. How can that sit right with anyone?

Global scientific consensus tells us we have 11 years to reverse climate change before it is too late. And yet we have a prime minister who could not be bothered to debate it. At the last leaders debate on ITV, climate change was never even brought up! Fritnin!

I see a lot of crap thrown at the way of Jeremy Corbyn. For whatever you think of his leadership or his policies between him and Alexander Boris De Feffal Johnson who has the interest of the working class at heart? vexed off at the personal attacks on Corbyn who is - if nothing else - a genuine, compassionate man, full of integrity, who has stood up for the most vulnerable in society his entire life. He has fought racism of every kind (including anti-Semitism) his entire life.

By comparison, and in the last 10 years alone, Boris Johnson has called gay men “tank top wearing bum boys”, he has called Muslim women “Letterboxes” and “bank robbers”, he has called black people “picanninies” with “watermelon smiles”. He said that the city of Liverpool was full of people always wanting to be the victims (about Hillsborough). He has been sacked twice for dishonesty. He is a serial adulterer. He is on record arranging for a journalist to be beaten up. He has banned the Daily Mirror from his tour bus. Refused to take part in certain debates. Dodged the Andrew Neil interview. Expelled members of his own party for voting against him. In the words of Basil Fawlty "otherwise okay?".

Political correctness has gone too far. I'm not a fan of the far left. I believe you can still be liberal and have common sense. Some of Corbyn's shadow cabinet I'm not dancing for joy at (like Diane Abbott) but with what is front of you ask yourselves this; Who really has the interest of the working class at heart? I have not found it difficult to choose which party to vote for when faced with that question.

I never the financial state that the Tories inherited from Labour was caused by Labour - just the Tories inherited it and something needed to be done. That involved controlling the one thing they could - public spending - do you think they took great pleasure in that a definite vote loser?

4 million children in poverty - what do you determine as poverty - poverty is what you see in Africa. These kids come from low income families where benefits top up their income to agreed levels. When you read about nurses earning £30k+ using food banks it does make you question?

Climate change can only be tackled on a global basis - yes we can do our bit - perhaps if we didn't buy Chinese products until they have cleaned up their act then it might make a difference. Fracking has reduced carbon output in the US yet we don't want to endorse it here.

The idea that the Labour party cares about the working class is simply not born out by their actions - Labour is now a north London elitist party controlled by Momentum and its cheerleaders like Owen Jones and Ash Sakar. It is now a party that lacks any kind of substance or gravitas.

Boris has simply learned from the mistakes made by May last time and his opponents this time - all he is trying to do is not screw up - Corbyn would do the same if he were in power and protecting his position. I doubt he will ever be interviewed by Neil again.

Corbyn is an agitator and always has been - he has a nasty temper on him when challenged - a defender of extreme organisation with whom he appears to have significant empathy.