Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

May tabled a motion saying that parliament doesn’t want to leave without a deal at the end of March.

An amendment saying that parliament doesn’t want to leave without a deal at any point was passed by four votes.

The government disliked the amendment and so moved from allowing a free vote for Tory MPs on their original motion to whipping against the amended version. It then passed by 43 votes, which I think tells us everything about May’s level of authority. Some ministers defied the whip apparently, so normally their resignations would be demanded.

Indeed - quite aside from all the associated madness that's going down in Westminster, the fact that cabinet ministers have defied the whip means that the sacred 'collective responsibility' has gone out the window - and there are reports that some of those people were given private assurances that they wouldn't lose their jobs if they voted against or abstained.

Mrs May has taken on all the characteristics of a stubborn bogey that no amount of picking, blowing or tweezers will remove; she has lost credibility, authority and whatever gravitas she once possessed - and despite all that, she apparently intends to bring her deal back twice more, in an attempt to chip away at the dissenters.

I suspect that the sole reason she's still in her role is that the Tories realise that a leadership contest now would seem self-indulgent, given the looming Brexit deadline - and would damage them in the subsequent GE.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:39 am  

bren2k wrote:

I suspect that the sole reason she's still in her role is that the Tories realise that a leadership contest now would seem self-indulgent, given the looming Brexit deadline - and would damage them in the subsequent GE.

That and the fact that nobody wants the job now. Instead they’d rather have the easier job of picking up the pieces once the decision is made without being tainted by it. I suspect that’s why the likes of Johnson and Raab gave up the responsibility of being in the cabinet.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:47 am  

bren2k wrote:

Indeed - quite aside from all the associated madness that's going down in Westminster, the fact that cabinet ministers have defied the whip means that the sacred 'collective responsibility' has gone out the window - and there are reports that some of those people were given private assurances that they wouldn't lose their jobs if they voted against or abstained.

Mrs May has taken on all the characteristics of a stubborn bogey that no amount of picking, blowing or tweezers will remove; she has lost credibility, authority and whatever gravitas she once possessed - and despite all that, she apparently intends to bring her deal back twice more, in an attempt to chip away at the dissenters.

I suspect that the sole reason she's still in her role is that the Tories realise that a leadership contest now would seem self-indulgent, given the looming Brexit deadline - and would damage them in the subsequent GE.

I noticed on morning tv this morning that the DUP are considering excepting the deal (wonder if that was another tax payers bribe), she is also apparently trying to get the ERG on board saying that Corbyn's deal is much softer than hers, so if they don't vote for her deal they could end up with a much softer Brexit.

The ERG have put forward a motion to rule out another referendum, they are awaiting to see if the speaker excepts it

Even though I was really hoping her deal would have been excepted, its been defeated end of

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:59 am  

Bullseye wrote:

That and the fact that nobody wants the job now. Instead they’d rather have the easier job of picking up the pieces once the decision is made without being tainted by it. I suspect that’s why the likes of Johnson and Raab gave up the responsibility of being in the cabinet.

Exactly this.
It's far easier for all of the future "contenders" to pick fault but, allow her to get past the Brexit deal.
After that there seems little doubt that she will be gone and under normal circumstances, she would have been removed many months ago.
Any new party leader cant look good while the Brexit fiasco remains "unsolved".

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:03 am  

POSTL wrote:

I noticed on morning tv this morning that the DUP are considering excepting the deal (wonder if that was another tax payers bribe), she is also apparently trying to get the ERG on board saying that Corbyn's deal is much softer than hers, so if they don't vote for her deal they could end up with a much softer Brexit.

The ERG have put forward a motion to rule out another referendum, they are awaiting to see if the speaker excepts it

Even though I was really hoping her deal would have been excepted, its been defeated end of

No doubt she's on manoeuvres - and I wouldn't rule out the DUP swinging to support her - but there will be a heavy price; that's what they do.

I see also that the Speaker has the power to prevent her bringing the same deal back to the House for a third time, under a parliamentary rule that prevents motions being brought to the house again and again - and Bercow is considering that.

Ironic that the people who are so against the people being given another vote, claiming "do you just keep having them until you get the result you want?" seem quite content to let Mrs May do exactly that with her awful deal that nobody likes.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:25 am  

bren2k wrote:

No doubt she's on manoeuvres - and I wouldn't rule out the DUP swinging to support her - but there will be a heavy price; that's what they do.

I see also that the Speaker has the power to prevent her bringing the same deal back to the House for a third time, under a parliamentary rule that prevents motions being brought to the house again and again - and Bercow is considering that.

Ironic that the people who are so against the people being given another vote, claiming "do you just keep having them until you get the result you want?" seem quite content to let Mrs May do exactly that with her awful deal that nobody likes.

This whole saga (pantomime) shows how screwed our parliamentary democracy is, even when a bill passes the commons the unelected Lords get a say.

The British Public's decision to leave the EU (which indicates the very fact they've termed it "Brexit" tells you how serious they are) was based on lies, from both leave and remain.

Was it Einstein (it is claimed) that said repeating the same actions but expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:59 am  

MGarbutt1986 wrote:

This whole saga (pantomime) shows how screwed our parliamentary democracy is, even when a bill passes the commons the unelected Lords get a say.

The British Public's decision to leave the EU (which indicates the very fact they've termed it "Brexit" tells you how serious they are) was based on lies, from both leave and remain.

Was it Einstein (it is claimed) that said repeating the same actions but expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

Absolutely, we must get rid of that unelected jobs for the boys institution called the Lord. Our elected representatives in the commons should represent the people.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:04 am  

POSTL wrote:

Absolutely, we must get rid of that unelected jobs for the boys institution called the Lord. Our elected representatives in the commons should represent the people.

The problem is even some constituency MP's don' t vote as their constituents wish.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:23 am  

POSTL wrote:

I noticed on morning tv this morning that the DUP are considering excepting the deal (wonder if that was another tax payers bribe), she is also apparently trying to get the ERG on board saying that Corbyn's deal is much softer than hers, so if they don't vote for her deal they could end up with a much softer Brexit.

The ERG have put forward a motion to rule out another referendum, they are awaiting to see if the speaker excepts it

Even though I was really hoping her deal would have been excepted, its been defeated end of

I'm not so sure about that, it only takes the E.R.G. lot & the D.U.P. to do a U-turn & agree to May's shoddy deal.

Yes, it's not what they want, but surely it's slightly better in their eyes to what we have now. What a shambolic situation that the whole Brexit fiasco will probably decided by ten bribed Irish M.P.'s.

If it's true that the majority of M.P.'s are remainers I just don't understand why they don't band together & just kick this catastrophe out of the ball park, for the sake of the country.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:27 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

I'm not so sure about that, it only takes the E.R.G. lot & the D.U.P. to do a U-turn & agree to May's shoddy deal.

Yes, it's not what they want, but surely it's slightly better in their eyes to what we have now. What a shambolic situation that the whole Brexit fiasco will probably decided by ten bribed Irish M.P.'s.

If it's true that the majority of M.P.'s are remainers I just don't understand why they don't band together & just kick this catastrophe out of the ball park, for the sake of the country.

It's simple, most MP's are about self-preservation.