Cronus wrote:
So a dislike of a massive and rapid influx of people, leading to a squeeze on lower-paid jobs, a rapid disruption of communities and other issues such as an increase in crime, differences in culture, etc - is not xenophobia. Neither is rejecting the idea of being ruled by Brussels, or indeed their ideology. You prove the point.
snip
I will not bother debating with Cronus as it is a waste of time. He is just the typical common or garden racist . An educated one but just as dangerous as the skinhead hooligans in the EDL.
What is dangerous are the lies , half truths and deliberate misinterpretation he peddles as a way of forwarding that agenda.
Many of them are very simple and quite easy to accept unless you know the facts and can pick them apart.
The above portion of his post is a really good example
The topic of discussion was Brexit and Cronus throws in the following points
So a dislike of a massive and rapid influx of people, Britain has been pullling in immigrants since 1945 to rebuild the country, staff the NHS, work the worst shifts that more upwardly mobile groups did not want to do build houses or pick fruit. West Indians to drive buses , Indian Drs, Pakistani mill workers, Irish nurses, polish builders, Rumanian fruit pickers.
The rapid influx of immigrants Cronus talks about was the 1.5 m polish workers that came into Britain under Tony Blair.
That was not forced on us by the EU but was a deliberate DECISON by a British PM. It did not have to happen it was not forced on Britain by the EU, it was a 100% British led and parliament decided policy.
The simple truth is that when Poland joined the EU every country had the opportunity of dying no immigrants for seven years. Every country in Europe said NO except Britain. So when Poland joined the EU for the first seven years there was nowhere for them to go Except Britain. if Britain had waited The seven years like the rest of Europe then when the Poles were allowed to move they would have shared themselves throughout Europe . No Massive influx just a general movement of labour to where it would have been needed.
leading to a squeeze on lower-paid jobs, Polish immigrants who came here were the most educated groups who went to any European country. Most were not in poor paid jobs unless that is what they were forced into due to having to work beefier they made their way up into jobs they were skillled for especially in IT, electronics etc.
This squeeze on lower paid jobs is a myth. When immigrants stopped coming they were not replaced by an army of unemployed Britons filling the gap. That is why hundreds of tonnes of fruit was left to rot last year as there was no one left to pick it. Those unskilled Rumanians actually did the jobs British people did not want to do and will not do in the future.
a rapid disruption of communities Ritalin has been suffering a massive disruption in communities since the miners strike. When Pontfract , Cas, Blyth, Easington, Bilsthorpe , teeside, Sunderland etc suffered massive disruption of communities it was based on pits, shipyards, steel mills closing down. not immigrants.
Where is Cronus calling for the demise of the Tory party for destroying communities.
When people in Barnsley, Sedgefield Aycliffe, Doncaster , Burnley , complain about the demise of their town centres And the closing of shops that is caused by amazon and online shopping and ludicrous rents for shops owned by speculators and landlords. None of this is caused by immigrants. Where is Cronus calling for the destruction of amazon Or enforcing taxes against companies who fiddle the tax system by registering abroad and reducing landlords powers.
the NHS is struggling dealing with old people bed blocking because there are no resources to keep them in their homes and support them because of massive cuts to the local authorities . Allied to massive cuts in the Health service, That is not caused by immigrants. Most of whom are younger fit and healthy. Where is Cronus calling for the demise of the Tory party and their austerity measures we have had for 10 years.
and other issues such as an increase in crime, . We have an increase in crime for many reasons, drugs, and the breakdown in communities, lack of activities for younger people, the demise of preventative services and underfunding of probation and support for rehabilitation, reductions in police services and the ending of community policing. None of this is caused by European immigrants. They are more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators. No doubt the usual anecdotes about Rumanian pickpockets will be thrown in but that is a small %. Even if you look at knife crime in London that is mainly British born children ( although many are the children of immigrants going back generations) nothing to do wit the EU or uncontrolled immigrants. They will have come here when Britain had controls. Many reasons why this has happened in London but that is a separate matter.
I wont shy away from the issue of the Asian organised abuse groups either. But anyone with half a brain knows that is nothing to do with the EU and immigration. What Cronus does quite deliberately is link all immigrants with Crime to support his racist xenophobic right wing agenda.
differences in culture true there are differences in culture with EU immigrants. Mainly catholic coming into a god fearing Protestant country where we still have religious wars and every time the monarch changes we burn heretics. They like different sports . Europeans coming in telling us how to. Play football by keeping possession and passing, what is wrong with hoofing it up the pitch and then bundling the ball and keeper into the goal. The talk a different language and when they learn to talk English they have really strong accents and you have to listen carefully to what they say. Not like our easy to understand Geordie brummie and cockney accents. They eat funny food what’s wrong with porridge and bacon and eggs for breakfast . Why do they have to have bloody croissants and cheese salami and pickles on rye bread
etc is not xenophobia.
. Actually yes it is how far along the xenophobic / racist line I don’t know but you are there on it
If you have got to the end of this post you will have realised the difference in the two approaches.
Cronus arguements are simple Mainly aimed at those who want simple solutions to complex problems. In Cronus’ world it comes down to. EU bad , immigrants bad.
When challenging that approach it requires knowledge, explanation and time . Much hardef to get across and by the time it is seen to be true it will probably be too late.
