Re: Eastleigh : Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:45 pm  

DaveO wrote:

And what do your base your opinion on? ?

I have based my opinions on articles in the media, notably The Times and The Telegraph. Along with the experience I have accumulated throughout the last x number of years, most particularly in 2 jobs that involved a lot of contact with people at the 'less fortunate' end of society.

Seemingly, for some, that is not good enough. It appears they want empirical research, or university level referencing to primary sources. Or perhaps they just don't like what I am saying because it doesn't square with their socio-political views. Probably the latter.

Anyway, I will bear this all in mind, next time someone links to The Guardian or Indy and quotes it as gospel.

I trust you will now be challenging all 'opinions' with the same rigor that you challenge mine. Could make for an interesting few weeks on The Sin Bin.

Re: Eastleigh : Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:17 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

I have based my opinions on articles in the media, notably The Times and The Telegraph. Along with the experience I have accumulated throughout the last x number of years, most notably in 2 jobs that involved a lot of contact with people at the 'less fortunate' end of society.

Seemingly, for some, that is not good enough. It appears they want empirical research, or university level referencing to primary sources. Or perhaps they just don't like what I am saying because it doesn't square with their socio-political views. Probably the latter.

Anyway, I will bear this all in mind, next time someone links to The Guardian or Indy and quotes it as gospel.

I trust you will now be challenging all 'opinions' with the same rigor that you challenge mine? Could make for an interesting few weeks on The Sin Bin.

Fook me, here we go again.

Why is it that right wingers always claim the "bullied victim" card whenever they are called out on their facsist opinions?

Re: Eastleigh : Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:27 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Fook me, here we go again.

Why is it that right wingers always claim the "bullied victim" card whenever they are called out on their facsist opinions?

Makes a change from the Sin Bin 'intelligentsia' resulting to personal abuse. Which is always a sign that they are doing well in an argument. Particularly amusing when those involved are mods / site admin team and the thread gets locked to save their blushes.

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:20 am  

FA - I have long argued that the argument about executive pay (and that for bankers) has been somehow allowed to be brushed off with reference to some vague concept of international competition or 'going rates'. The fact is that some of the nonsensically high pay levels and bonuses being paid are a downright failure of the way western economies work.

These people are not taking any real 'risks' on themselves but are being rewarded as though they were entrepreneurs risking their own money and livelihoods. If they did take that risk, and agreed to being personally bankrupted if they screwed up, they'd have a case. But that patently isn't so.

[DaveO]

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:59 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

I have based my opinions on articles in the media, notably The Times and The Telegraph. Along with the experience I have accumulated throughout the last x number of years, most particularly in 2 jobs that involved a lot of contact with people at the 'less fortunate' end of society.

Seemingly, for some, that is not good enough. It appears they want empirical research, or university level referencing to primary sources. Or perhaps they just don't like what I am saying because it doesn't square with their socio-political views. Probably the latter.

No they don't want "empirical research". People just don't care for people posting platitudes. Even Dally backs up his position with his links to the Daily Mail.

Anyway, I will bear this all in mind, next time someone links to The Guardian or Indy and quotes it as gospel.

I trust you will now be challenging all 'opinions' with the same rigor that you challenge mine. Could make for an interesting few weeks on The Sin Bin.

You don't need to bare anything in mind, just learn the difference between posting platitudes and having a real discussion.

[DaveO]

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:09 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

FA - I have long argued that the argument about executive pay (and that for bankers) has been somehow allowed to be brushed off with reference to some vague concept of international competition or 'going rates'. The fact is that some of the nonsensically high pay levels and bonuses being paid are a downright failure of the way western economies work.

These people are not taking any real 'risks' on themselves but are being rewarded as though they were entrepreneurs risking their own money and livelihoods. If they did take that risk, and agreed to being personally bankrupted if they screwed up, they'd have a case. But that patently isn't so.

I heard something on the radio the other day about how the bonus culture came about. It went along the lines of banks used to be partnerships with the senior bankers the partners (obviously). When banks moved to a shareholder based business the partners had to give up the potential high rewards partnership based businesses give to the partners (basically carving up the profits no further than the partners). So as compensation for giving this up bonuses were introduced for the former partners.

I think it's clear the bonus culture as gone a lot further than that in recent years and has become a way to offer massive rewards for as you say little real risk to a lot more people. I forget how many employees at one of the US investment banks were on $1m bonuses but it was several hundred so way beyond the senior bankers who could be considered the equivalent of the former partners.

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:42 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

The 'opinion piece' you speak of is the editorial of a the UK's main broadsheet. It's not the Sun, the Daily Mail, or any other sensationalist rag...

Nobody has suggested otherwise.

But that is not the point.

It is an opinion piece – however good or bad or indifferent.

You have claimed that there is "widespread abuse" of the system. You have been asked for evidence of that "widespread abuse".

You have still not provided any.

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:12 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

... Unless you are a university professor conducting empirical research, pretty much everything is opinion. Reference The Sin Bin, pretty much every post, on every thread, is someone's opinion.

In which case, you have now suggested that, unless a newspaper editor is also "a university professor conducting empirical research", no media reports or content can ever be taken as anything other than "someone's opinion".

It would mean, for instance, that no newspaper ever published anything that was not opinion.

Which is quite clearly errant nonsense – and amusingly sees you destroy your own pretence that editorials constitute evidence.

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:31 am  

As a little exercise, perhaps The Video Ref (or anyone else, for that matter) can analyse this report from the Telegraph and explain which bits of it are mere opinion, given that political correspondent Peter Dominiczak is not also "a university professor conducting empirical research".

As a little exercise, perhaps The Video Ref (or anyone else, for that matter) can analyse this report from the Telegraph and explain which bits of it are mere opinion, given that political correspondent Peter Dominiczak is not also "a university professor conducting empirical research".

Re: Eastleigh : Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:50 am  

DaveO wrote:

I heard something on the radio the other day about how the bonus culture came about. It went along the lines of banks used to be partnerships with the senior bankers the partners (obviously). When banks moved to a shareholder based business the partners had to give up the potential high rewards partnership based businesses give to the partners (basically carving up the profits no further than the partners). So as compensation for giving this up bonuses were introduced for the former partners.

I think it's clear the bonus culture as gone a lot further than that in recent years and has become a way to offer massive rewards for as you say little real risk to a lot more people. I forget how many employees at one of the US investment banks were on $1m bonuses but it was several hundred so way beyond the senior bankers who could be considered the equivalent of the former partners.

I can see that banks will want to reward and encourage those who make squillions in profit for the banks by their activities.
To my mind the issue is not about bonuses per se, but about the giving of bonuses as reward for risky dealing.