Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:56 pm  

MGarbutt1986 wrote:

Shouldn't matter, a constituency MP should know, and follow, the voters wishes.

But it's OK, you'd have anyone who disagrees with you and Komrade Corbyn in the salt mines.

You mean you weren't aware & now look a prat? In the last 27 years I have voted in every local, European & GE that I was eligible. I have voted Labour twice I think. You're not doing too well today.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:59 pm  

tigertot wrote:

You mean you weren't aware & now look a prat? In the last 27 years I have voted in every local, European & GE that I was eligible. I have voted Labour twice I think. You're not doing too well today.

If I look "a prat" to you, I must be getting it right.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:13 pm  

MGarbutt1986 wrote:

If I look "a prat" to you, I must be getting it right.

Leeds voted Remain. How should Tory MP for Pudsey, Stewart Andrew, vote?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:44 pm  

So, it looks like no deal, or 2nd referendum. I would assume the latter is pretty much the only option in order to secure an extension to article 50.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:45 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

So, it looks like no deal, or 2nd referendum. I would assume the latter is pretty much the only option in order to secure an extension to article 50.

If it's a no deal it would be the EU forcing it on us which they won't, as far as I am aware, following the series of votes last week no deal is off the table for us and we have to ask for an extension to article 50 its just a matter of what reason we will put to the EU for the extension.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:47 pm  

POSTL wrote:

If it's a no deal it would be the EU forcing it on us which they won't, as far as I am aware, following the series of votes last week no deal is off the table for us and we have to ask for an extension to article 50 its just a matter of what reason we will put to the EU for the extension.

It only takes one of the 27 to veto our request for an extension and we're out on 29th, whatever. Right now, legally we are still leaving on that date regardless of the Parliamentary votes last week. If the muppets in the HoC can't vote a deal through then it's WTO terms and see ya later.

In the same vein, the EU need to offer something different for May to take her vote to the HoC again. Let's think about the logic here. If the EU don't offer anything substantially new, why would they offer an extension - in the knowledge their deal can't even be voted on again after Bercow's stunt today?

That's why some of the ERG are as happy as a rabbit with 2 cocks. They know Bercow has forced the issue and if the EU don't play ball, we're out with no deal.

Of course the EU could string it along in the hope of a 2nd referendum or somehow A50 is revoked. But again, just one veto is all it takes and there are plenty out there not particularly keen on Brussels.

I've always been ardently anti-No Deal, but if that's what it takes to get us out, so be it. Dragging it out for months serves no purpose and I (and 17M others) don't want any part of the grand EU plan, especially when they refuse point blank to reform.

May has done her best. Brexit is not a party issue and the numbers appear to be evenly spread along the scale from the very hardest Brexit all the way along to Remain. Whatever deal she (or anyone else) came back with would never please everyone.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:57 pm  

[quote="Cronus"

May has done her best. Brexit is not a party issue and the numbers appear to be evenly spread along the scale from the very hardest Brexit all the way along to Remain. Whatever deal she (or anyone else) came back with would never please everyone.[/quote]

You say that May "has done her best" but, whilst I agree that there is a myriad of remain and leave views in Parliament, she has failed miserably to try and "sell" ANY vision of the future or to accommodate ANY majority of MP's.

To gain consensus, the only way would have been to ignore the hard brexitiers and staunch remainers and go for the majoriy in the middle.

The difficulty for her is that, this would very likely have split the Tories down the middle.

She has clearly put party before country and made a complete mess of the deal and with the intervention from the speaker, we are left hoping that the power brokers within the EU blink because, as you say, the alternative appears to be no deal, something which Parliament has already voted against.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:17 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You say that May "has done her best" but, whilst I agree that there is a myriad of remain and leave views in Parliament, she has failed miserably to try and "sell" ANY vision of the future or to accommodate ANY majority of MP's.

To gain consensus, the only way would have been to ignore the hard brexitiers and staunch remainers and go for the majoriy in the middle.

The difficulty for her is that, this would very likely have split the Tories down the middle.

She has clearly put party before country and made a complete mess of the deal and with the intervention from the speaker, we are left hoping that the power brokers within the EU blink because, as you say, the alternative appears to be no deal, something which Parliament has already voted against.

Hmm. As far as I can tell the Tories are split down the middle anyway, and May's deal is about as 'centre Brexit' as it can be.

It's an odd and contradictory situation right now.

Firstly, Parliament's 'no deal' vote isn't legally binding. Even May can ignore it. And remember, if we end up with no extension and no deal, what happens on 29th March? Yep, out. Whether we like it or not.

At the same time - Parliament's 'no deal' vote tells the EU they have no reason to blink, meaning they have no pressing reason to amend the deal, which means the deal can't be voted on again after Bercow's stunt. And if the deal isn't going to change, why would they agree an extension? They've all been asking 'to what purpose?' regarding an extension. If there is no justifiable purpose, why agree? Don't forget - they absolutely don't want an extension leading to the UK's involvement in the EU elections in May.

Bercow may have just sealed our no deal exit.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:51 pm  

Cronus wrote:

It only takes one of the 27 to veto our request for an extension and we're out on 29th, whatever. Right now, legally we are still leaving on that date regardless of the Parliamentary votes last week. If the muppets in the HoC can't vote a deal through then it's WTO terms and see ya later.

In the same vein, the EU need to offer something different for May to take her vote to the HoC again. Let's think about the logic here. If the EU don't offer anything substantially new, why would they offer an extension - in the knowledge their deal can't even be voted on again after Bercow's stunt today?

That's why some of the ERG are as happy as a rabbit with 2 cocks. They know Bercow has forced the issue and if the EU don't play ball, we're out with no deal.

Of course the EU could string it along in the hope of a 2nd referendum or somehow A50 is revoked. But again, just one veto is all it takes and there are plenty out there not particularly keen on Brussels.

I've always been ardently anti-No Deal, but if that's what it takes to get us out, so be it. Dragging it out for months serves no purpose and I (and 17M others) don't want any part of the grand EU plan, especially when they refuse point blank to reform.

May has done her best. Brexit is not a party issue and the numbers appear to be evenly spread along the scale from the very hardest Brexit all the way along to Remain. Whatever deal she (or anyone else) came back with would never please everyone.

I agree it will only take 1 of the 27 to refuse an extension to A50 and were out with no deal, however, one of the European TV reporters said that it is very very unlikely to happen, if any of the 27 do show decent they will be taken to one side as it were and put straight.

I think your 4th para is the most likely, they would want us to have a long extension to A50 which will cost us millions to do so then eventually have another referendum with the hope that we stay in.
Even though I really want to leave the EU, I like yourself would also prefer to leave with a deal. ideally I would like us to negotiate a customs arrangement and a trade policy. It's in ours and the EU's interest to have a continued relationship and co-operation on defence, crime etc.
I never thought we would actually leave the EU and I still think that will eventually be the case.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:47 am  

I can't see us leaving the EU, millions spent on a nothing exercise. HoC is a shambles.