Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:28 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Agreed.
Although Labour are now just ahead in the opinion polls

See - I never even mentioned it.

The 30 year internecine battle over Europe within the Tory Party has been projected on to the wider stage, and proved ruinous; the only solution now is a long extension and a GE - the parliamentary maths has to be changed somehow.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:46 am  

Bullseye wrote:

If we have a GE I fear it would just return a hung parliament with the same divisions as exist now.

Brexit has divided the Cabinet, the Government, Parliament and the country. Right down the middle. So much that any course of action is likely to anger a significant minority and thus increase division no matter what course is taken.

What a great idea it was to have that referendum...

That increasingly has the feel of inevitability to it.

I suppose a Farage-led hard Brexit party could disrupt things. More by who they take votes from rather than winning loads of seats - though they might well win a fair few, with how things have gone. On the other side, if people remember they exist, the Lib Dems could pick up votes from hard remainers - that petition suggests there are more than I imagined.

Could the Tories even hold together around one manifesto plan on Brexit?

And I think there’s a real chance at least 1 EU country will want to rip the sticking plaster off. The idea of Brexit poisoning elections and political discourse in Europe any longer has got to be massively unappealing.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:36 pm  

The UK pays in the third highest amount and that’s including the rebate.

The amount we pay in is equivalent to the 9 lowest paying countries.

We get back less than what we pay in, whereas some countries like Bulgaria get a massive amount back for the little they put in.

Once we leave, the financial burden falls on the shoulders of France and Germany, they are s***ing themselves and this will lead to the breakup of the EU as Germans won’t be happy once they have to pay more.

We hold all the power, we should leave under WTO rules and stop all this messing about. IMO the EU are trying to screw us so hard that our politicians, media and public are soo scared about leaving that we don’t. We should use this as a motivational tool and leave without a deal, let them come to us once they’re ready. The German car makes will be breaking down the doors to make a deal, we just need to have faith.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:52 pm  

post wrote:

The UK pays in the third highest amount and that’s including the rebate.

The amount we pay in is equivalent to the 9 lowest paying countries.

We get back less than what we pay in, whereas some countries like Bulgaria get a massive amount back for the little they put in.

Once we leave, the financial burden falls on the shoulders of France and Germany, they are s***ing themselves and this will lead to the breakup of the EU as Germans won’t be happy once they have to pay more.

We hold all the power, we should leave under WTO rules and stop all this messing about. IMO the EU are trying to screw us so hard that our politicians, media and public are soo scared about leaving that we don’t. We should use this as a motivational tool and leave without a deal, let them come to us once they’re ready. The German car makes will be breaking down the doors to make a deal, we just need to have faith.

You are David Davis and I claim my £5

I’ve already explained a bit on this thread why leaving without a deal is an extraordinarily bad idea. This is from my direct involvement in planning for it in the NHS over the past 3 months rather than reading something on social media.

People that advocate no deal never seem to have any understanding of what it actually means. I have an understanding of how it would affect the NHS and it isn’t good. It’s not just a case of toughing out a few weeks or months either, the effects linger on for years and years.

We must sign up to a deal.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:07 pm  

When will people get it through their thick skulls that there is no form of Brexit that is better than what we have now? Whatever people were told, or what they thought they voted for, is demonstrably undeliverable - it was a false prospectus - and whilst I can see that is frustrating, the blame for that should sit squarely with the people who told those lies in the first place. It seems rather sad that the only people with the bottle to say that, are EU officials.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:19 pm  

post wrote:

We hold all the power

post wrote:

IMO the EU are trying to screw us so hard

In what ways?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:19 pm  

Planning for a no deal outcome should have been instigated as soon as the vote leave was announced. That way if we couldn’t agree a mutually beneficial deal we could revert to a no deal plan. Because of Teresa May incompetence along with her negotiation team a no deal would be potentially disastrous for us. Mainly because no major deal planning has occurred. We are woefully unprepared. One thing that unites this site is the absolute incompetence of Teresa May. The European question has devastated every Tory prime minister including thatcher. Finally it’s now virtually destroyed the Tory Party. Anne Widdecombe summed up the political situation wonderfully on tv ,quote, we have the worst Tory prime minister in years, along with the worst opposition leader ever. Coupled with the worst parliament since Oliver Cromwell unquote.
Business leaders must be absolutely seething at this vision of incompetence.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:20 pm  

post wrote:

The UK pays in the third highest amount and that’s including the rebate.

The amount we pay in is equivalent to the 9 lowest paying countries.

We get back less than what we pay in, whereas some countries like Bulgaria get a massive amount back for the little they put in.

Once we leave, the financial burden falls on the shoulders of France and Germany, they are s***ing themselves and this will lead to the breakup of the EU as Germans won’t be happy once they have to pay more.

We hold all the power, we should leave under WTO rules and stop all this messing about. IMO the EU are trying to screw us so hard that our politicians, media and public are soo scared about leaving that we don’t. We should use this as a motivational tool and leave without a deal, let them come to us once they’re ready. The German car makes will be breaking down the doors to make a deal, we just need to have faith.

I’m glad to see that that the ridiculous mismanagement of this ill-conceived process hasn’t shaken everybody’s belief in Britain.

I’m not sure how the EU can be said to be screwing us though. Their offer was in line with what you’d expect based on May’s redlines. Unless you believed the BS about us getting preferential treatment and a special deal, it was very predictable.

1 Euro per French and German person per week will cover our net contribution. Or Bulgaria et al. might get a bit less instead. Not insignificant, but there are estimates (pinch of salt, obviously) that we’re all about £10 worse off per week as a result of the Brexit vote and the mess that has been made so far, and that’s before Brexit itself.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:21 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

One thing that unites this site is the absolute incompetence of Teresa May....... it’s now virtually destroyed the Tory Party.

If that's the case I love her. She's done a brilliant job.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:33 pm  

I woke up the day after Brexit s***ing myself to what was voted for, but with the way we have been treated by the EU has made me so angry that I’m glad we voted out. At the end of the day, if we make a success of Brexit then other will follow and that’s what the EU is worried about. So they’re making it so difficult that we have no option but stay.

The whole idea to start with was a brilliant idea of having the EEC but it turned into a whole different beast. Free movement of people is great when they are natives of the EU countries and not people from outside of Europe seeking a Greek passport that will allow them into any Country in the EU.

The countries that joined in 2004 (Baltic’s etc) and 2007 (Romania/Bulgaria), The Arab spring, the downfall of Gaddafi, meddling NGOs in the Med and Merkels war guilt which made her welcome in the millions of migrants into Europe, Nigel Farages ability to capitalise on this as a good orator and the UKs ‘f you’ attitude is the real reason people voted leave, not because Boris Johnson had a promise on a bus.

The EU needs to be stripped right back to what it was set up for, I’d join tomorrow.