Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:08 pm  

cod'ead wrote: Looks like Camoron was briefed long ago, three months ago in fact. Seems like he had such faith in his Chief Whip that he sat on the evidence and let "nature" take its course You just can't do that as a leader of a business though can you - if you have two parties at loggerheads with each other both telling stories completely at odds with each other AND you have sufficient cctv evidence (not those pathetic clips that are in the public domain) to absolutely beyond any doubt show what happened, then you get both party's to sit down in a meeting room and you lay everythign on the table and you thrash it out between you all, clear the air, make a decision as CEO and then get on with the important jobs. He's desperately trying to stay out of this and his office is spoon feeding snippets to the press every day, the only ones who aren't making any comments at all are the Met and the Diplomatic Protection Squad - what the hell have they got up their sleeves ? Sooner or later Cameron will have to stand up and get involved and bring things to a head, problem is that the time to do it quietly without any fuss or even a mention in the press (it didn't appear for days afterwards) is long gone and one or other of the chiefs heads will roll at the end of all this.

cod'ead wrote: Looks like Camoron was briefed long ago, three months ago in fact. Seems like he had such faith in his Chief Whip that he sat on the evidence and let "nature" take its course You just can't do that as a leader of a business though can you - if you have two parties at loggerheads with each other both telling stories completely at odds with each other AND you have sufficient cctv evidence (not those pathetic clips that are in the public domain) to absolutely beyond any doubt show what happened, then you get both party's to sit down in a meeting room and you lay everythign on the table and you thrash it out between you all, clear the air, make a decision as CEO and then get on with the important jobs. He's desperately trying to stay out of this and his office is spoon feeding snippets to the press every day, the only ones who aren't making any comments at all are the Met and the Diplomatic Protection Squad - what the hell have they got up their sleeves ? Sooner or later Cameron will have to stand up and get involved and bring things to a head, problem is that the time to do it quietly without any fuss or even a mention in the press (it didn't appear for days afterwards) is long gone and one or other of the chiefs heads will roll at the end of all this.

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:05 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

:lol: You just can't do that as a leader of a business though can you - if you have two parties at loggerheads with each other both telling stories completely at odds with each other AND you have sufficient cctv evidence (not those pathetic clips that are in the public domain) to absolutely beyond any doubt show what happened, then you get both party's to sit down in a meeting room and you lay everythign on the table and you thrash it out between you all, clear the air, make a decision as CEO and then get on with the important jobs.

He's desperately trying to stay out of this and his office is spoon feeding snippets to the press every day, the only ones who aren't making any comments at all are the Met and the Diplomatic Protection Squad - what the hell have they got up their sleeves ?

Sooner or later Cameron will have to stand up and get involved and bring things to a head, problem is that the time to do it quietly without any fuss or even a mention in the press (it didn't appear for days afterwards) is long gone and one or other of the chiefs heads will roll at the end of all this.

I would suggest the MPS and DPG have jack s... Up their sleeve. It's the Police Federation of the West Midlands Police who have taken this on board. The mets fed and the Met as a whole have said all they need to say on the matter. From what I have seen they dealt with it on the day. MP swears at them and its delt with there and then. Report goes in end of story. That's how it's been ALL along. Then ONE rogue officer (yes there are one or two in 30000+) tries to make political gain out of it. Why Mitchell only he would know. The WMP Fed take the story up and bingo we have a toxic mix in which no one wins. Least of all Mitchell who admits he swore at the police.
CCTV DOES NOT prove if he said pleb or not.

What some of you on here seem to think is that CCTV is conclusive. Generally speaking it proves nothing least of all when we are talking about speech as it does not pick up what was said.
If any of you can say for certain that Mitchelll didn't say pleb then you are far better than me.
Mitchell has gone because of his contempt for those protecting him simple as that.
Anything in relation to the copper arrested and the 23yr old has at this time nothing to do ith the DPG on duty at the time of the incident.

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:07 am  

ZACH wrote:

What some of you on here seem to think is that CCTV is conclusive. Generally speaking it proves nothing least of all when we are talking about speech as it does not pick up what was said.
If any of you can say for certain that Mitchelll didn't say pleb then you are far better than me.
Mitchell has gone because of his contempt for those protecting him simple as that.
Anything in relation to the copper arrested and the 23yr old has at this time nothing to do ith the DPG on duty at the time of the incident.

I agree with all you've said but what I would take issue with is the quality of the cctv in this specific case, I just do not believe that the cctv shots in the public domain are the only ones available for if they are then the security of our government is at high risk - if any gated enclosed compound in the UK deserves (and will have) the highest quality video and audio gathering devices it will be the gate at the end of Downing Street and what we see in the public domain is the stuff that they'd normally throw away during an investigation, quite why anyone would release that to the public media as part of their campaign of innocence is beyond me other than the fact that they think we're idiots and will swallow it - the media have certainly done that, especially CH4 who's presentation of it read directly from Mitchell's PR machine.

There has been a huge change in the way that government behaves in the last decade and most of it is down to the instant sharing of information outside of the normal channels of TV news and print media (which as we know can be carefully controlled by both parties), its not sufficient as a PM to have newspaper owners in your pocket these days for they are now almost irrelevant when small pressure groups can whip up 100,000 signatures on an online petition overnight and force a vote in parliament over issues as bizarre as chopping trees down and shooting badgers, with this and twp political party's to appease the PM has very limited powers these days, hence the reason why he is desperately trying to keep a distance between himself and Mitchell.

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:17 am  

cod'ead wrote: Looks like Camoron was briefed long ago, three months ago in fact. Seems like he had such faith in his Chief Whip that he sat on the evidence and let "nature" take its course Not really that surprising. As many have pointed out, the evidence is suspect rather than conclusive. As things stood it was Mitchell v the police. And Mitchell did admit to using inappropriate language. If Cameron had sided with Mitchell it would have become the government v the police on an isuue where the Chief Whip had admitted using bad language. Never going to happen.

cod'ead wrote: Looks like Camoron was briefed long ago, three months ago in fact. Seems like he had such faith in his Chief Whip that he sat on the evidence and let "nature" take its course Not really that surprising. As many have pointed out, the evidence is suspect rather than conclusive. As things stood it was Mitchell v the police. And Mitchell did admit to using inappropriate language. If Cameron had sided with Mitchell it would have become the government v the police on an isuue where the Chief Whip had admitted using bad language. Never going to happen.

[Kosh]

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:52 am  

ZACH wrote:

I would suggest the MPS and DPG have jack s... Up their sleeve. It's the Police Federation of the West Midlands Police who have taken this on board. The mets fed and the Met as a whole have said all they need to say on the matter. From what I have seen they dealt with it on the day. MP swears at them and its delt with there and then. Report goes in end of story. That's how it's been ALL along. Then ONE rogue officer (yes there are one or two in 30000+) tries to make political gain out of it. Why Mitchell only he would know. The WMP Fed take the story up and bingo we have a toxic mix in which no one wins. Least of all Mitchell who admits he swore at the police.
CCTV DOES NOT prove if he said pleb or not.

What some of you on here seem to think is that CCTV is conclusive. Generally speaking it proves nothing least of all when we are talking about speech as it does not pick up what was said.
If any of you can say for certain that Mitchelll didn't say pleb then you are far better than me.
Mitchell has gone because of his contempt for those protecting him simple as that.
Anything in relation to the copper arrested and the 23yr old has at this time nothing to do ith the DPG on duty at the time of the incident.

Good summary of the situation.

You really can't see this affair ending well for anyone TBH.

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:24 pm  

Reading this thread sadly proves that there are still many who choose to perpetuate the old ‘class war’ at every opportunity. These dinosaurs display a common trait for character abuse (which only highlights their prejudice and in certain cases envy) as they pursue their rigid political dogma at all costs. Then as facts emerge that throw doubt on their so quick to judge prejudiced views, they totally fail to consider or acknowledge any possibility that an injustice may have occurred.

In this affair we still await the full facts which we hope will prove who is telling the truth and who is lying. So to form opinions set in concrete without knowledge of the facts is both unwise and unfair.

However what is now clear is that this scandal has become a crisis for the police with a poll suggesting that public opinion has swung in Mitchell’s favour, with more people believing his version of events than the police’s version and where there are discredited elements of the politicised police union (the Police Federation) who appear out of control. A Police Federation spokesman allegedly lied about a meeting with Mr Mitchell.

What also is looking increasingly of grave concern is that if a government minister can be “fitted up” and found guilty, without a thorough check of the allegations, what chance for an ordinary member of the public.

For a serving police officer of the diplomatic protection unit to fabricate evidence against a cabinet minister and send by email to the deputy chief whip is a very serious situation. As the contents of this email echoed the official police log it throws suspicion on this same log which is further challenged by the CCTV footage. The police log claimed “there were several members of the public present, as is the norm opposite the pedestrian gate” and “The members of the public looked visibly shocked” The police account has to be 100% reliable which it plainly is not. Had this come to a trial the case would have been thrown out.

Meanwhile Mitchell is preparing to sue individual and parts of the media.

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:05 am  

Lord Elpers wrote:

Reading this thread sadly proves that there are still many who choose to perpetuate the old ‘class war’ at every opportunity. These dinosaurs display a common trait for character abuse (which only highlights their prejudice and in certain cases envy) as they pursue their rigid political dogma at all costs. Then as facts emerge that throw doubt on their so quick to judge prejudiced views, they totally fail to consider or acknowledge any possibility that an injustice may have occurred.

In this affair we still await the full facts which we hope will prove who is telling the truth and who is lying. So to form opinions set in concrete without knowledge of the facts is both unwise and unfair.

However what is now clear is that this scandal has become a crisis for the police with a poll suggesting that public opinion has swung in Mitchell’s favour, with more people believing his version of events than the police’s version and where there are discredited elements of the politicised police union (the Police Federation) who appear out of control. A Police Federation spokesman allegedly lied about a meeting with Mr Mitchell.

What also is looking increasingly of grave concern is that if a government minister can be “fitted up” and found guilty, without a thorough check of the allegations, what chance for an ordinary member of the public.

For a serving police officer of the diplomatic protection unit to fabricate evidence against a cabinet minister and send by email to the deputy chief whip is a very serious situation. As the contents of this email echoed the official police log it throws suspicion on this same log which is further challenged by the CCTV footage. The police log claimed “there were several members of the public present, as is the norm opposite the pedestrian gate” and “The members of the public looked visibly shocked” The police account has to be 100% reliable which it plainly is not. Had this come to a trial the case would have been thrown out.

Meanwhile Mitchell is preparing to sue individual and parts of the media.

Top post.

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:22 am  

Lord Elpers wrote:

Meanwhile Mitchell is preparing to sue individual and parts of the media.

He told you this did he?

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:27 am  

He should sue, if he is sure that there is no more evidence...

This is Camerons worst christmas nightmare, a senior member of his party at odds with the police over christmas, both sides squaring up for a fight, not all of the information yet released to a baying media who are happy to jump ship and join the other side day by day depending on who has the juiciest story, and yet Cameron could stop all of this tomorrow but is too weak to do so ...

Re: Andrew Mitchell MP - Meltdown ? : Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:30 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Cameron could stop all of this tomorrow ...

How?