[DaveO]

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm  

TrinityIHC wrote:

I think the idea has merit for the long term unemployed (of working age etc) I think the skills that it develops are more to do with the whole process of getting up and going to work for a few weeks.

That is the most ridiculous justification of the lot. No one needs to learn how to get up and go to work.

It's quite a transition for someone who is used to having the day as their own to then have to be up, dressed and in work for a relatively early time in the morning.

An equally ridiculous assertion.

Totally unsuitable for the recently unemployed, but think it has use to the long term jsa claimants imo.

It is totally unsuitable for anyone. Shelf stacking at poundland benefits no one except poundland who get free labour. The idea the long term unemployed need to do this so they can learn to get up in the morning is beyond moronic.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:40 pm  

Mencap are pulling out of the Work Programme.

[DaveO]

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:52 pm  

Damo-Leeds wrote:

Mencap are pulling out of the Work Programme.

I am shocked they were in it in the first place.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:32 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I am shocked they were in it in the first place.

Charities like Mencap have been involved with placing disabled people into free labor for a very long time. It's just hard and universally unacceptable to criticize charities because they help the children.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:02 pm  

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/17/iain-duncan-smith-hits-ou_n_2705512.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/17/iain-duncan-smith-hits-ou_n_2705512.html

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:50 pm  

WIZEB wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/17/iain-duncan-smith-hits-ou_n_2705512.html "I am not going to give way on this. I absolutely clearly tell you this: people who think it is their right to take benefit and do nothing for it - those days are over." Thats the sound of an angry man. Unfortunately we don't want legislation based on anger for people who can't control their anger seldom make rational decisions, someone in his party needs to sit Mr Duncan-Smith down and explain that people like Ms Reilly don't "sign up for this" much less "get paid" JSA for working 20 to 30 hours per week in menial tasks, they should point out just how close his statement came to admitting that HM Government broke their own employment legislation if, as he thinks, Ms Reilly "got paid" for doing her shelf stacking task. Is there anyone in his party who will explain the error of his ways ? Probably not, depressingly there are too many in his party who think he hasn't gone far enough.

WIZEB wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/17/iain-duncan-smith-hits-ou_n_2705512.html "I am not going to give way on this. I absolutely clearly tell you this: people who think it is their right to take benefit and do nothing for it - those days are over." Thats the sound of an angry man. Unfortunately we don't want legislation based on anger for people who can't control their anger seldom make rational decisions, someone in his party needs to sit Mr Duncan-Smith down and explain that people like Ms Reilly don't "sign up for this" much less "get paid" JSA for working 20 to 30 hours per week in menial tasks, they should point out just how close his statement came to admitting that HM Government broke their own employment legislation if, as he thinks, Ms Reilly "got paid" for doing her shelf stacking task. Is there anyone in his party who will explain the error of his ways ? Probably not, depressingly there are too many in his party who think he hasn't gone far enough.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:14 pm  

What is it about Chingford and the twaaats that represent that constituency?

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:11 pm  

DaveO wrote:

That is the most ridiculous justification of the lot. No one needs to learn how to get up and go to work.

An equally ridiculous assertion.

It is totally unsuitable for anyone. Shelf stacking at poundland benefits no one except poundland who get free labour. The idea the long term unemployed need to do this so they can learn to get up in the morning is beyond moronic.

DaveO - you are mistaken, I have worked with many many individuals who have been on the dole that long, they don't even see it as a "benefit." It's never crossed their mind that the job centre is about getting work, to them it's just a place they have to go every fortnight and say well drilled in lines so that they can get "paid." They have absolutely no concept of responsibility.

These are people who think that "oh well I was asleep" should be sufficient justification for missing an 11:30 appointment and then kick off that their benefits get sanctioned.

I don't judge them on this, they are a product of their environment and it's gutting to see so many like that, but I feel the welfare state has created much of the environment in the first place.

For these people, and as I say there are a LOT - I think that the whole experience of mixing with people outside their usual circles and dealing with the public for a few weeks, as well as getting in the habit of up, showered, dressed, work etc - is beneficial.

[DaveO]

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:00 am  

TrinityIHC wrote:

DaveO - you are mistaken, I have worked with many many individuals who have been on the dole that long, they don't even see it as a "benefit." It's never crossed their mind that the job centre is about getting work, to them it's just a place they have to go every fortnight and say well drilled in lines so that they can get "paid." They have absolutely no concept of responsibility.

These are people who think that "oh well I was asleep" should be sufficient justification for missing an 11:30 appointment and then kick off that their benefits get sanctioned.

I don't judge them on this, they are a product of their environment and it's gutting to see so many like that, but I feel the welfare state has created much of the environment in the first place.

For these people, and as I say there are a LOT - I think that the whole experience of mixing with people outside their usual circles and dealing with the public for a few weeks, as well as getting in the habit of up, showered, dressed, work etc - is beneficial.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. I am sure there are some workshy people put there but the vast majority are not. IDS wants to force all unemployed people onto workfare because he thinks they should work for their benefits. He shows contempt toward people genuinely seeking work as his comments about Cait Reilly show. She doesn't need to be trained to get up and neither do the vast majority of the unemployed.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:41 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

"I am not going to give way on this. I absolutely clearly tell you this: people who think it is their right to take benefit and do nothing for it - those days are over."

Thats the sound of an angry man.

Unfortunately we don't want legislation based on anger for people who can't control their anger seldom make rational decisions, someone in his party needs to sit Mr Duncan-Smith down and explain that people like Ms Reilly don't "sign up for this" much less "get paid" JSA for working 20 to 30 hours per week in menial tasks, they should point out just how close his statement came to admitting that HM Government broke their own employment legislation if, as he thinks, Ms Reilly "got paid" for doing her shelf stacking task.

Is there anyone in his party who will explain the error of his ways ?

Probably not, depressingly there are too many in his party who think he hasn't gone far enough.

As someone tweeted earlier:

"I went to Uni so I could leave my job at Kwik Save, not so that I could go back and work there for benefits!"