[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:46 pm  

Lilfatman wrote:

Reading all the comments about the EU makes me wonder how we managed before it was thought of.

It’s not some shining beacon. Real things rarely are, whereas imagined things can be more often.

The problem with Brexit is that it is moving, slowly, agonisingly, shamblingly from a myriad of imagined versions to single ragged eared reality. And with that, it becomes the position that needs to be defended, and the most successful arguments on any topic are generally based on attack.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:25 am  

Lilfatman wrote:

Reading all the comments about the EU makes me wonder how we managed before it was thought of.

Think of it as to how people shopped before the supermarkets came along.
Everything under one roof, immense buying power and not getting pushed around by smaller shops.

Our nation of shopkeepers now thinks that we can do better as a corner shop as they are unable to get on with their neighbours.
Mind you, we cant even get along with ourselves.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 am  

Lilfatman wrote:

Reading all the comments about the EU makes me wonder how we managed before it was thought of.

There were no forriners then so it wasn't an issue.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:12 am  

Lilfatman wrote:

Reading all the comments about the EU makes me wonder how we managed before it was thought of.

The world was very different back then.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:24 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The point is that YOU and your ilk have voted in the recession that is looming and for what ?
So that we can create our own laws and "control" immigration ??

Over half of the current immigration was "controlled", with around 300,000 people coming into the UK from outside the EU ??

I fully understand the issues around sovereignty, although on the flip side, we literally be a stand alone island, going it alone, without the protection and opportunities that arise from being part of the largest trading bloc in the western world.

I just hope that you will enjoy the higher prices and interest rate increases that will be coming our way, after all, it's what you wanted

The £39 billion is a debt owed to the EU for that which WE agreed.
Are you seriously suggesting that our once great nation begins it's new independent life by reneging on it's debts.
That will really elevate our status, NOT.

In the economic cycle who is to say we would not be in a recession again - we have had plenty since our time in the EU - membership of the EU doesn't make the UK recession-proof.

You think on such a simplistic level - what the EU want is complete central control and eventually no elections as the control will be with non-elected bureaucrats - that is what the fight is for not immigration. Why should we be propping up less affluent nations within the EU we already spend Bn's on foreign aid. Its is bad enough now - so we have a second vote, which is no deal or stay - what happens if no deal wins - how can these politicians implement that? How can you rally against the burgers in Brussels?

If we actually start to use more of our own produce then perhaps the levels of inflation could be controlled - we are not going to change into a banana republic over night

The 39bn is a bargaining chip - the EU really needs it - whilst no one country will be impacted as much as us, collectively the EU will suffer more than we will. Why would they just not let us go? If you think the EU will not negotiate a trade deal then I think you are naïve but then I think on this matter your thinking is very superficial anyway

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:50 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

what the EU want is complete central control and eventually no elections as the control will be with non-elected bureaucrats

Really, you know this, how? Who are these bureaucrats? You think a country like Germany, with massively powerful federalism, is going to allow this? Don't tell me, the Germans will control everything so it won't matter to them?

Sal Paradise wrote:

If we actually start to use more of our own produce then perhaps the levels of inflation could be controlled - we are not going to change into a banana republic over night

And what's stopping us now? Only the fact we don't produce anything.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:40 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

In the economic cycle who is to say we would not be in a recession again - we have had plenty since our time in the EU - membership of the EU doesn't make the UK recession-proof.

You think on such a simplistic level - what the EU want is complete central control and eventually no elections as the control will be with non-elected bureaucrats - that is what the fight is for not immigration. Why should we be propping up less affluent nations within the EU we already spend Bn's on foreign aid. Its is bad enough now - so we have a second vote, which is no deal or stay - what happens if no deal wins - how can these politicians implement that? How can you rally against the burgers in Brussels?

If we actually start to use more of our own produce then perhaps the levels of inflation could be controlled - we are not going to change into a banana republic over night

The 39bn is a bargaining chip - the EU really needs it - whilst no one country will be impacted as much as us, collectively the EU will suffer more than we will. Why would they just not let us go? If you think the EU will not negotiate a trade deal then I think you are naïve but then I think on this matter your thinking is very superficial anyway

Really, do you believe that France or Germany would want to be controlled by the people that you speak of ?
The people that you speak of are in many ways, similar to our own civil service.

Somebody has to implement the will of the politicians or maybe you think that Merkel and Macron should "sign the cheques" ?

As for propping up less affluent nations - this is exactly what should happen in this type of organisation or would you prefer that Germany takes control or, perhaps Britannia should enslave them and bring them into the Commonwealth.

As for Banana Republic, I agree, it wont happen overnight but, the hard truth is that NOBODY knows what happened if we end up with "No Deal" and personally, I prefer to have a little more certainty in my life.

It's ok for Reece Mogg and Boris etc, their lives will still be mighty comfortable and as usual, those lower down the shaft will be squeezed yet again - some things will never change

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:08 pm  

Lilfatman wrote:

Reading all the comments about the EU makes me wonder how we managed before it was thought of.

Oh we managed brilliantly, one million British killed during the two wars, oh for the good old days!

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:05 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Why would they just not let us go?

In what way have they stopped us leaving?

If you mean the £39 billion, that largely covered the transitional period and pre-existing ongoing commitments. The transitional period was pretty uncontroversial and generally seen as being close to necessary until recently.

The Irish border problem could be dealt with during a transitional period, but it is a big one without a solution that pleases everybody on the UK side. If it is naive to think the EU trade deal won’t be quick and easy, then equally it is naive to think the backstop will ever be needed, no?

If it is just that they haven’t delivered what Johnson, Gove, Davis and Farage promised, then it is gullibility and sulks stopping us leaving rather than the EU.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:57 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

In what way have they stopped us leaving?

If you mean the £39 billion, that largely covered the transitional period and pre-existing ongoing commitments. The transitional period was pretty uncontroversial and generally seen as being close to necessary until recently.

The Irish border problem could be dealt with during a transitional period, but it is a big one without a solution that pleases everybody on the UK side. If it is naive to think the EU trade deal won’t be quick and easy, then equally it is naive to think the backstop will ever be needed, no?

If it is just that they haven’t delivered what Johnson, Gove, Davis and Farage promised, then it is gullibility and sulks stopping us leaving rather than the EU.

We were paying net 9bn? a year which would continue until we left - so how is we are paying a further £39bn post leaving? So we can continue to support the wasteful EU?

Are you suggesting the EU have been helpful in trying to support an orderly withdrawl - seriously. May and her team were the worst team of negotiators imaginable and that is a significant contributory factor as why we are in the mess we are.

The trade deal will be quick because the EU will suffer most - it will be an interesting discussion when the unelected council get pressure from the pesky members who pay their wages.

The final reason is we have a bunch of MPs approx. 70% who will do everything they can to avoid implementing the democratic vote. It is typical of what happens when the public defy the politicians, look in Scotland they had a referendum that was supposed to be once in a generation the SNP didn't get the result they wanted so they are spoiling for another vote, same with regards to Brexit.

What happens if we have another vote - no deal exit or leave and we vote for a no deal exit? No doubt we will continue having votes until the MPs get the result they want.