Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Who would have thought we would have an unelected Labour government - that is a distinct possibility.

On the EU listen to the likes of Verhofstadt - they see the input of members states as a negative and as soon as it is stopped the better. He is not alone.

We have yet another unelected PM in the UK; I am struggling to see your opposition to this. You name a Belgian politician; who strangely is not German or French - you remember those who you know run the EU? I could just as easily name other members of the EU parliament who have different views. You just dredge up unsubstantiated right-wing rag headlines to desperately try to avert attention from the disaster your sort are imposing on the country due to a warped ideology that dates back to the times when world maps were predominantly pink.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:57 am  

tigertot wrote:

We have yet another unelected PM in the UK; I am struggling to see your opposition to this. You name a Belgian politician; who strangely is not German or French - you remember those who you know run the EU? I could just as easily name other members of the EU parliament who have different views. You just dredge up unsubstantiated right-wing rag headlines to desperately try to avert attention from the disaster your sort are imposing on the country due to a warped ideology that dates back to the times when world maps were predominantly pink.

Boris whilst unelected he does lead a party that got the most MPs and the largest proportion of the popular vote they got 56 more seats and c800k more votes. So I have little issue with who leads the party in that scenario.

The idea that Corbyn could be the party in charge without even a vote is incredible - I know for lefties like you that should be the natural order of things i.e. you lefties know what's best for all of us - perhaps why you are so keen on the dictatorial EU.

Even Stevie Wonder can see over the last 40 years we have conceded more control over our laws to the EU - so when does this slide stop or does it continue until they decide all our laws? British steel could not be helped by the UK government due to abiding to laws made by the EU. Eire had low CT that is now being challenged by the EU where does this cease?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:45 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Boris whilst unelected he does lead a party that got the most MPs and the largest proportion of the popular vote they got 56 more seats and c800k more votes. So I have little issue with who leads the party in that scenario.

The idea that Corbyn could be the party in charge without even a vote is incredible - I know for lefties like you that should be the natural order of things i.e. you lefties know what's best for all of us - perhaps why you are so keen on the dictatorial EU.

Even Stevie Wonder can see over the last 40 years we have conceded more control over our laws to the EU - so when does this slide stop or does it continue until they decide all our laws? British steel could not be helped by the UK government due to abiding to laws made by the EU. Eire had low CT that is now being challenged by the EU where does this cease?

Come on, it's simple maths.
The Tories, with the largest number of MP's get the first shot at forming a government, which is all good and fair.
However, if they are voted down in a confidence vote then, there should either be an interim government, from a coalition of the other parties or, a general election.
It's got nothing to do with "lefties" or "righties", it's just maths.

Having said that, it was Mrs May that gambled with the Tory majority and was left being propped up by the DUP, therefore, this situation is all of the Tories own doing. Notwithstanding the fact that, their version of Brexit is just not acceptable within Parliament.
Again, worth noting that it was primarily the ERG that prevented Mrs Mays deal passing through Parliament - yet another example of strong and stable government.

The Tories dont deserve to be in charge but, the next government, without doubt will be a coalition, with Farage and the Tories on one side and Labour, the LibDems and SNP on the other and nobody will be over the moon with those options, other than perhaps the SNP and of course Mr Farage who isn't even an MP ??

If ever there was a reason for remaining in the EU, you have it right there.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:12 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The idea that Corbyn could be the party in charge without even a vote is incredible - I know for lefties like you that should be the natural order of things i.e. you lefties know what's best for all of us - perhaps why you are so keen on the dictatorial EU.

The suggestion from an establishment fag that the left know what's best for all is hilarious. I've voted Labour once in the last 30 years in GE so your narrow-minded assumptions are garbage. Can you tell me how your life will be improved if we leave the EU - apart from a smug feeling of racial superiority?
Are you able to argue without quoting unsubstantiated right-wing rag-like headlines?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:49 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Come on, it's simple maths.
The Tories, with the largest number of MP's get the first shot at forming a government, which is all good and fair.
However, if they are voted down in a confidence vote then, there should either be an interim government, from a coalition of the other parties or, a general election.
It's got nothing to do with "lefties" or "righties", it's just maths.

Having said that, it was Mrs May that gambled with the Tory majority and was left being propped up by the DUP, therefore, this situation is all of the Tories own doing. Notwithstanding the fact that, their version of Brexit is just not acceptable within Parliament.
Again, worth noting that it was primarily the ERG that prevented Mrs Mays deal passing through Parliament - yet another example of strong and stable government.

The Tories dont deserve to be in charge but, the next government, without doubt will be a coalition, with Farage and the Tories on one side and Labour, the LibDems and SNP on the other and nobody will be over the moon with those options, other than perhaps the SNP and of course Mr Farage who isn't even an MP ??

If ever there was a reason for remaining in the EU, you have it right there.

There should definitely be a general election - under no circumstances should Corbyn be allowed to form a government by the back door. Let him put his case to the country and take his chances - he lost last time by >50 seats and 800k votes.

What prevented May's deal going through was the terms of the deal - end of. Had she negotiated a reasonable deal it would have had more chance of success - nothing to do with the ERG.

Time will tell on the next GE and the government that is formed - if we leave the EU as discussed Farage will be dead in the water and that is as you say the best reason for leaving the EU. The idea that Lady Nicola would have any input into who forms the government when she like Farage isn't even an MP should give everyone cause for concern.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:59 pm  

tigertot wrote:

The suggestion from an establishment fag that the left know what's best for all is hilarious. I've voted Labour once in the last 30 years in GE so your narrow-minded assumptions are garbage. Can you tell me how your life will be improved if we leave the EU - apart from a smug feeling of racial superiority?
Are you able to argue without quoting unsubstantiated right-wing rag-like headlines?

If Corbyn doesn't think he knows best why does he want to nationalise everything from banking to utilities to transport?

What will be improved - surely if don't have to inject Bn.'s into supporting less prosperous countries in the EU and we can re-direct that money into all the services everyone craves money for?

Setting our laws means those laws can be focused on the needs of this country rather the observing laws that are made for the benefit of other nations e.g. agriculture/fishing. Our farming is just about the most advanced in Europe yet it is held back by the inefficient farming in the rest of Europe.

Perhaps we might get back to consuming more of our own produce e.g. Lamb why we import so much from New Zealand yet export so much to EU seems mad to me - why not simply consume our own Lamb.

Farage would be dead in the water and we wont need MEPs

Would you like a few more?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:32 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If Corbyn doesn't think he knows best why does he want to nationalise everything from banking to utilities to transport?

What will be improved - surely if don't have to inject Bn.'s into supporting less prosperous countries in the EU and we can re-direct that money into all the services everyone craves money for?

Setting our laws means those laws can be focused on the needs of this country rather the observing laws that are made for the benefit of other nations e.g. agriculture/fishing. Our farming is just about the most advanced in Europe yet it is held back by the inefficient farming in the rest of Europe.

Perhaps we might get back to consuming more of our own produce e.g. Lamb why we import so much from New Zealand yet export so much to EU seems mad to me - why not simply consume our own Lamb.

Farage would be dead in the water and we wont need MEPs

Would you like a few more?

Are you still assuming that our trade deals, when they are eventually agreed, will be as good (or better) than we have now ?
If not, the £9 billion will be like very small drops in the ocean.

As for consuming more of our own produce ?
The lamb that you mention may be a good example (along with Danish Bacon etc)
However, the UK is a massive net importer and the trade gap would be significantly larger if we didn't have a surplus in "invisible" trade, which , incidentally, comes under threat if/when we are no longer within the EU.

Once again, I dont think thet you have thought your argument through too well.

Although, I do agree with you about Corbyn ,who IMO is a closet Leaver and has so many splinters in his booty from straddling the Brexit fence that he may have trouble sitting down.

The guy is a shocking leader and wont become Prime Minister any time soon

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:56 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What prevented May's deal going through was the terms of the deal - end of. Had she negotiated a reasonable deal it would have had more chance of success - nothing to do with the ERG.

May’s deal was a reasonable ‘hard option’, imo. Not what i’d have advocated, but reasonable nonetheless.

What do you think a reasonable deal would look like?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:30 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

May’s deal was a reasonable ‘hard option’, imo. Not what i’d have advocated, but reasonable nonetheless.

What do you think a reasonable deal would look like?

Until they (the politicians) can find a sensible way around the Irish Backstop, there cant/wont be a deal.
The pillocks, that drove the referendum campaign and told EVERYONE how simple it would be and how we would have preferable trade deals accross the world and free trade with the EU, had no idea how it would happen and they still dont.

No deal, throws Ireland into chaos and leaves so many unanswered questions that "we" would be stupid to allow it to happen.
In a cruel twist of irony, Corbyn, could be the politician that ensures no deal.

He's still sat on the fence, not knowing whether to publicly support Brexit or "swap sides" and push for remaining in the EU and he really needs to be doing whatever is necessary to prevent a no deal exit. Sadly, he will drift along until its too late.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:44 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Until they (the politicians) can find a sensible way around the Irish Backstop, there cant/wont be a deal.
The pillocks, that drove the referendum campaign and told EVERYONE how simple it would be and how we would have preferable trade deals accross the world and free trade with the EU, had no idea how it would happen and they still dont.

No deal, throws Ireland into chaos and leaves so many unanswered questions that "we" would be stupid to allow it to happen.
In a cruel twist of irony, Corbyn, could be the politician that ensures no deal.

He's still sat on the fence, not knowing whether to publicly support Brexit or "swap sides" and push for remaining in the EU and he really needs to be doing whatever is necessary to prevent a no deal exit. Sadly, he will drift along until its too late.

Aye, but there isn’t a good Brexit-based solution to the Irish border problem to be found, that pleases all (or even any?) of the Brexit coalition. The only way to get rid of the backstop is to postpone the decision. At some point a choice has to made as to which two of the following we want.

1. Full regulatory autonomy for the UK
2. No border on the island of Ireland
3. No border within the UK

(I’m agreeing with the post i’ve quoted - despite the ‘but’ near the start of my post)