Re: General Election campaign : Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:59 pm  

bren2k wrote:

As we've spoken, another one bites the dust; Alun Cairns, a Cabinet member, resigns over allegations that he was complicit in the deliberate sabotage of a rape trial.

The Tories - what a fine and upstanding bunch of basterds.

He wasn't complicit - he resigned because he knew about the guy and what he had done but suggested he didn't - he should have been locked up along with the defendant.

Re: General Election campaign : Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:01 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Less said about Mogg the better - doubt you will see him again in this campaign.

Wishful thinking - there'll be plenty *more* said about him, and rightly so; it wasn't a gaffe, or an error, or a misspeak - it was a very clear indication of the callous, superior and uncaring attitude that characterises the sociopathic monsters that Eton has been inflicting on us for generations.

Re: General Election campaign : Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:46 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Wishful thinking - there'll be plenty *more* said about him, and rightly so; it wasn't a gaffe, or an error, or a misspeak - it was a very clear indication of the callous, superior and uncaring attitude that characterises the sociopathic monsters that Eton has been inflicting on us for generations.

I agree 100% - completely out of touch with reality.

Re: General Election campaign : Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:48 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Labour have two big issues - financial credibility - whatever you say about austerity one thing you can't say is the Tories have been profligate with the monies

This is simply not true. The conservatives have repeated the lie so many times lots of people believe it, but it’s not true.

Labour last came to power in 1997
1997 debt as % of GDP 43.4%
10 years of a labour government
2007 debt as a % of GDP 41.7%

The the Global Financial Crisis

Conservatives gain power in 2010
2010 debt as a % of GDP 75.2%
10 years of a conservative government
2019 debt as % of GDP 85.2%

Re: General Election campaign : Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:41 pm  

bren2k wrote: Jacob Rees-Mogg saying on LBC that the people who died in the Grenfell fire did so because they lacked common sense Not quite what he said though, is it? “The more one’s read over the weekend about the report about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you’re told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen.” He's very clearly stating that having read the report (benefit of hindsight) it is his conclusion that you are safer ignoring official advice and using what to most of us would be common sense - to leave a burning building as fast as you can. Sadly the fire brigade had little idea the cladding was fuelling the fire and the usual policy led to so many deaths. BTW, he's actually wrong (but he's far from the only one to voice this opinion) and if you're not clear on the very good reasons for the high-rise fire policy of 'stay-put', read this outstanding article. Not often I say that of the Indy. Today was just another example of the vitriolic left twisting words and context to launch yet another vicious attack, whipping things up into a faux fury. Resign! Resign! Get the victim's group to express their outrage! Make some outraged statements! He's a Tory so he must be baaaaad. Thankfully - despite what your tailored social media feeds probably tell you - most reasonable folk get what he was clumsily trying to say. One might almost call it common sense.

bren2k wrote: Jacob Rees-Mogg saying on LBC that the people who died in the Grenfell fire did so because they lacked common sense Not quite what he said though, is it? “The more one’s read over the weekend about the report about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you’re told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen.” He's very clearly stating that having read the report (benefit of hindsight) it is his conclusion that you are safer ignoring official advice and using what to most of us would be common sense - to leave a burning building as fast as you can. Sadly the fire brigade had little idea the cladding was fuelling the fire and the usual policy led to so many deaths. BTW, he's actually wrong (but he's far from the only one to voice this opinion) and if you're not clear on the very good reasons for the high-rise fire policy of 'stay-put', read this outstanding article. Not often I say that of the Indy. Today was just another example of the vitriolic left twisting words and context to launch yet another vicious attack, whipping things up into a faux fury. Resign! Resign! Get the victim's group to express their outrage! Make some outraged statements! He's a Tory so he must be baaaaad. Thankfully - despite what your tailored social media feeds probably tell you - most reasonable folk get what he was clumsily trying to say. One might almost call it common sense.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:44 am  

Cronus wrote: Not quite what he said though, is it? “The more one’s read over the weekend about the report about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you’re told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen.” He's very clearly stating that having read the report (benefit of hindsight) it is his conclusion that you are safer ignoring official advice and using what to most of us would be common sense - to leave a burning building as fast as you can. Sadly the fire brigade had little idea the cladding was fuelling the fire and the usual policy led to so many deaths. BTW, he's actually wrong (but he's far from the only one to voice this opinion) and if you're not clear on the very good reasons for the high-rise fire policy of 'stay-put', read this outstanding article. Not often I say that of the Indy. Today was just another example of the vitriolic left twisting words and context to launch yet another vicious attack, whipping things up into a faux fury. Resign! Resign! Get the victim's group to express their outrage! Make some outraged statements! He's a Tory so he must be baaaaad. Thankfully - despite what your tailored social media feeds probably tell you - most reasonable folk get what he was clumsily trying to say. One might almost call it common sense. I agree with what you have put. However, the suggestion is that he would have been bright enough to get out and that those who perished, under orders to stay put, were not as bright and the comments from his colleague, who tried to defend him, only made matters worse. Ultimately, just as you say, the defective cladding, rapidly spread the fire up the building, something that nobody could foresee happening. Yes, there is an over reaction to his comments but, they were massively insensitive and under the magnifying glass that hover's over every comment and nuance, during an election campaign - especially in the social media driven world that we are in - there is no surprise that everything is blown up into something much bigger. This, to a certain extent, has always happened but, social media, does mean that the avalanche gathers pace more quickly.

Cronus wrote: Not quite what he said though, is it? “The more one’s read over the weekend about the report about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you’re told and leave you are so much safer. And I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do. And it is such a tragedy that that didn’t happen.” He's very clearly stating that having read the report (benefit of hindsight) it is his conclusion that you are safer ignoring official advice and using what to most of us would be common sense - to leave a burning building as fast as you can. Sadly the fire brigade had little idea the cladding was fuelling the fire and the usual policy led to so many deaths. BTW, he's actually wrong (but he's far from the only one to voice this opinion) and if you're not clear on the very good reasons for the high-rise fire policy of 'stay-put', read this outstanding article. Not often I say that of the Indy. Today was just another example of the vitriolic left twisting words and context to launch yet another vicious attack, whipping things up into a faux fury. Resign! Resign! Get the victim's group to express their outrage! Make some outraged statements! He's a Tory so he must be baaaaad. Thankfully - despite what your tailored social media feeds probably tell you - most reasonable folk get what he was clumsily trying to say. One might almost call it common sense. I agree with what you have put. However, the suggestion is that he would have been bright enough to get out and that those who perished, under orders to stay put, were not as bright and the comments from his colleague, who tried to defend him, only made matters worse. Ultimately, just as you say, the defective cladding, rapidly spread the fire up the building, something that nobody could foresee happening. Yes, there is an over reaction to his comments but, they were massively insensitive and under the magnifying glass that hover's over every comment and nuance, during an election campaign - especially in the social media driven world that we are in - there is no surprise that everything is blown up into something much bigger. This, to a certain extent, has always happened but, social media, does mean that the avalanche gathers pace more quickly.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:52 am  

Why is it that the Tory mantra seems to be, "vote for us because we're not as bad as Labour".
Despite their huge (but shrinking) lead in the polls, they are already running one of the most negative campaigns that we've ever seen.

They seem to be getting nervous and their confidence waning already ?

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:01 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Why is it that the Tory mantra seems to be, "vote for us because we're not as bad as Labour".
Despite their huge (but shrinking) lead in the polls, they are already running one of the most negative campaigns that we've ever seen.

They seem to be getting nervous and their confidence waning already ?

Not sure why you think the Tory lead is shrinking, most polls show them at just under 40%, with slow but steady increase. Labour have also shown an increase while the Lib Dems are down.

Not a great day for Labour. Tom Watson is the latest to have had enough of the leadership, and for 2 recently departed ex-Labour MPs to announce they will be voting Conservative(!) because Corbyn is simply not fit to be PM is simply astonishing and a damning indictment of the state of Labour. Even the most stubborn Labour voter has to be asking themselves some serious questions right now.

Yet any criticism of Corbyn and McDonnell is rounded on as 'right wing media hype' and you'll all still vote Labour because "me dad did, n' 'is dad, n' we was in t'union yer know n' I always 'ave n' they'd be turnin in tha graves".

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:06 am  

Yesterday Abbott says Ken Clarke said he couldn't vote Tory - he never did. McDonald said Austin was employed by the Tories - no he wasn't. They said workers rights would get worse - their is no evidence whatsoever to support that. They said America would privatise the NHS again there is no evidence whatsoever of that. This campaign Labour have time and again said you can't believe a word the Tories say - it seems telling lies is comes very easy to the senior Labour figures.

To say the Tories are running a very negative campaign is maybe true but you can hardly say Labour are holding the higher moral ground?

Labour's spend spree is now £400bn (£150bn from yesterday and £250bn green initiative) and that is before they purchase RM, all the utility companies and the rail franchises. On top of that there will be a national bank, national generic drug manufacturer etc. Its madness - it lacks any kind of credibility.

Re: General Election campaign : Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Yesterday Abbott says Ken Clarke said he couldn't vote Tory - he never did. McDonald said Austin was employed by the Tories - no he wasn't. They said workers rights would get worse - their is no evidence whatsoever to support that. They said America would privatise the NHS again there is no evidence whatsoever of that. This campaign Labour have time and again said you can't believe a word the Tories say - it seems telling lies is comes very easy to the senior Labour figures.

To say the Tories are running a very negative campaign is maybe true but you can hardly say Labour are holding the higher moral ground?

Labour's spend spree is now £400bn (£150bn from yesterday and £250bn green initiative) and that is before they purchase RM, all the utility companies and the rail franchises. On top of that there will be a national bank, national generic drug manufacturer etc. Its madness - it lacks any kind of credibility.

Increase maternity pay to 12 month, require managers at large firms to be trained in helping people coping with the menopause, they are hilarious. A Governmwnt for the Snowflake Millenials.