Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:25 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

There's a limit to the number of smilies permitted, so I'll stick with two

Yes, I know, in my defence I didn't say they were accurate.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:47 pm  

Him wrote:

If you think it affected the UK that badly, how do you explain the fact that UK exports kept increasing during that period?

Were we shipping stuff overseas for more money?
Still, i'm sure it's just another crazy, crazy coincidence that the general trend was for export increase despite the economic fall/collapse in the Eurozone like in the UK. It's almost like they're linked.
France

Germany

Italy

Euro Area


Not to mention why consumer confidence, business confidence etc would fall so quickly after the Coalition coming into power despite rising just before?[/quote]

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:48 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote: It is interesting to note that all these moderator types who spend so much time on here all have left wing views and seem to know a lot about under-employment. I wonder why? How many are public servants? How many are employed? and if so do their employers know they are moonlighting? So yeah, in the "Real World" where only right wingers do any hard work? Lord Elpers wrote: All the signs are for the recovery to continue. We have just had the biggest upward revision of growth in an official forecast for 14 years as I previously reported (OBR's jump from 0.6% to 1.4% and forecast 2.4% for 2014) Business optimism has been even stronger with the three main sectors of the economy - services, manufacturing and construction - are showing the strongest pick-up since the mid 1990s when the economy was recovering strongly. And we've just had some very big downward revisions, not to mention the growth figures are still small, as welcome as they are. Business and consumer confidence were also strong just before the 2010 election. Government policies put paid to that. Lord Elpers wrote: So clearly Osborne has stuck to his plan despite all his many critics demanding he change direction. His austerity policy is now proven to be clearly working and bearing fruit and he has won the intellectual economic policy argument over Labour with their borrow and spend and others with the Keynesian dogma. That's it, just say it again and it might come true. Think happy thoughts and you might reach Neverland too. Lord Elpers wrote: See my piece above (and previous comments) about what Buster Brown & Ed Balls-up left behind. The economy had dived 7.2% in 2008/9 and any improvement prior to the 2010 election should not be taken as a "growing economy" You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Yes, we've seen what they left behind, an economy growing with virtually all economic indicators in a positive direction. The Chancellor that compared us to Greece and told us to follow Ireland's example and his government's policies turned that around. Lord Elpers wrote: Because there are those that agree with my points does not make them followers or indeed fakes. You seem obsessed and I could perhaps take you more seriously if you stopped being so personal. Where have I been personal? He is quite clearly an additional account setup by someone already banned or who wants a different persona. The only one getting personal on here is you with your rather silly attempts at pretending that only the right wingers have jobs. Lord Elpers wrote: Ok then lets have some details on your "different more logical economic policy" One that doesn't destroy consumer and business confidence. One that used Britain's record low borrowing rates to invest and get people into work. Creating a virtuous cycle of employment and consumer spending. Pretty much the opposite to the Coalition policy. Lord Elpers wrote: The eurozone crisis started before the UK election. January 2010: The worlds biggest bond trader warned "the UK's debt was resting on a bed of nitroglycerine". Official figures confirmed that Britain had emerged from recession by the narrowest of margins. April 2010: the govenor of the BoE warned that the victor in the imminent election will be forced into austerity measures that will keep the party out of power for a generation. April 2010: First bail out for Greece June 2010: Euro sinks to 4 year low August 2010: British exports to Portugal, Itlay, ireland, Greece & Spain plunge by 16% etc etc etc http://www.theguardian.com/business/interactive/2012/oct/17/eurozone-crisis-interactive-timeline-three-years Interesting which bits you omitted from there isn't it. Like the one in December 2009 where George Osborne thinks we're like Greece. Or the bit where it mentions the UK had emerged from recession, ie the economy was growing. The graphs prove any effects of the Eurozone were later than when the UK suffered its economic dip, unless somehow the UK was affected earlier than countries actually in the Eurozone. You can continue to just keep saying "austerity is working" over and over again if you want. You started with that and seems like you're sticking to that tactic even after 19 pages. But it doesn't make it true, 3+ years of a flat economy (in real terms -3.3%) prove that it didn't work. As mentioned by others, if you wait long enough of course the economy will come back on its own, its what you do in the mean time that shows what kind of government you are. The fact is this government did little to nothing to help mitigate the effects of the crash and their policies on the people of this country and took the opportunity to defund public services whilst privatising others. However the biggest criticism I reserve for this government (aside from the attacks on welfare & public services) is the shameful, disgraceful cut in investment. The last thing a weak economy needs is for government to cut back on investment and that's exactly what they did. Down to negative net figures.

Lord Elpers wrote: It is interesting to note that all these moderator types who spend so much time on here all have left wing views and seem to know a lot about under-employment. I wonder why? How many are public servants? How many are employed? and if so do their employers know they are moonlighting? So yeah, in the "Real World" where only right wingers do any hard work? Lord Elpers wrote: All the signs are for the recovery to continue. We have just had the biggest upward revision of growth in an official forecast for 14 years as I previously reported (OBR's jump from 0.6% to 1.4% and forecast 2.4% for 2014) Business optimism has been even stronger with the three main sectors of the economy - services, manufacturing and construction - are showing the strongest pick-up since the mid 1990s when the economy was recovering strongly. And we've just had some very big downward revisions, not to mention the growth figures are still small, as welcome as they are. Business and consumer confidence were also strong just before the 2010 election. Government policies put paid to that. Lord Elpers wrote: So clearly Osborne has stuck to his plan despite all his many critics demanding he change direction. His austerity policy is now proven to be clearly working and bearing fruit and he has won the intellectual economic policy argument over Labour with their borrow and spend and others with the Keynesian dogma. That's it, just say it again and it might come true. Think happy thoughts and you might reach Neverland too. Lord Elpers wrote: See my piece above (and previous comments) about what Buster Brown & Ed Balls-up left behind. The economy had dived 7.2% in 2008/9 and any improvement prior to the 2010 election should not be taken as a "growing economy" You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Yes, we've seen what they left behind, an economy growing with virtually all economic indicators in a positive direction. The Chancellor that compared us to Greece and told us to follow Ireland's example and his government's policies turned that around. Lord Elpers wrote: Because there are those that agree with my points does not make them followers or indeed fakes. You seem obsessed and I could perhaps take you more seriously if you stopped being so personal. Where have I been personal? He is quite clearly an additional account setup by someone already banned or who wants a different persona. The only one getting personal on here is you with your rather silly attempts at pretending that only the right wingers have jobs. Lord Elpers wrote: Ok then lets have some details on your "different more logical economic policy" One that doesn't destroy consumer and business confidence. One that used Britain's record low borrowing rates to invest and get people into work. Creating a virtuous cycle of employment and consumer spending. Pretty much the opposite to the Coalition policy. Lord Elpers wrote: The eurozone crisis started before the UK election. January 2010: The worlds biggest bond trader warned "the UK's debt was resting on a bed of nitroglycerine". Official figures confirmed that Britain had emerged from recession by the narrowest of margins. April 2010: the govenor of the BoE warned that the victor in the imminent election will be forced into austerity measures that will keep the party out of power for a generation. April 2010: First bail out for Greece June 2010: Euro sinks to 4 year low August 2010: British exports to Portugal, Itlay, ireland, Greece & Spain plunge by 16% etc etc etc http://www.theguardian.com/business/interactive/2012/oct/17/eurozone-crisis-interactive-timeline-three-years Interesting which bits you omitted from there isn't it. Like the one in December 2009 where George Osborne thinks we're like Greece. Or the bit where it mentions the UK had emerged from recession, ie the economy was growing. The graphs prove any effects of the Eurozone were later than when the UK suffered its economic dip, unless somehow the UK was affected earlier than countries actually in the Eurozone. You can continue to just keep saying "austerity is working" over and over again if you want. You started with that and seems like you're sticking to that tactic even after 19 pages. But it doesn't make it true, 3+ years of a flat economy (in real terms -3.3%) prove that it didn't work. As mentioned by others, if you wait long enough of course the economy will come back on its own, its what you do in the mean time that shows what kind of government you are. The fact is this government did little to nothing to help mitigate the effects of the crash and their policies on the people of this country and took the opportunity to defund public services whilst privatising others. However the biggest criticism I reserve for this government (aside from the attacks on welfare & public services) is the shameful, disgraceful cut in investment. The last thing a weak economy needs is for government to cut back on investment and that's exactly what they did. Down to negative net figures.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:51 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

Graphs

Thanks for proving that exports increased, saved me a job.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:08 pm  

Him wrote:

:?
Thanks for proving that exports increased, saved me a job.

Yes, they increased. They increased all over the Eurozone. Why was this despite the economic slow down?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:41 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

Yes, they increased. They increased all over the Eurozone. Why was this despite the economic slow down?

Because they were coming from a low base and other markets were sought to export to.
All evidence to show UK exports weren't unduly affected by the Eurozone problems, as was claimed. Again, thanks for proving my point for me.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:50 pm  

Him wrote:

Because they were coming from a low base and other markets were sought to export to.
All evidence to show UK exports weren't unduly affected by the Eurozone problems, as was claimed. Again, thanks for proving my point for me.

I wasn't asking about the UK, why were Eurozone exports up despite the Eurozone economic problems?

The only thing proved is the choppy economic conditions in the Eurozone, our largest trading partner, was mirrored over here. By the way, which of these coalition policies caused this choppiness?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:55 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

I wasn't asking about the UK, why were Eurozone exports up despite the Eurozone economic problems?

The only thing proved is the choppy economic conditions in the Eurozone, our largest trading partner, was mirrored over here. By the way, which of these coalition policies caused this choppiness?

The entire context of the discussion was around how the Eurozone problems had affected the UK economy. It was claimed exports had been hit by it. Obviously that isn't the case.
If you want to now change the entire discussion to be about the Eurozone then personally I'd say that deserves another thread.
Even so, the answer is still the same.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:14 pm  

Him wrote:

:WALL:
The entire context of the discussion was around how the Eurozone problems had affected the UK economy. It was claimed exports had been hit by it. Obviously that isn't the case.
If you want to now change the entire discussion to be about the Eurozone then personally I'd say that deserves another thread.
Even so, the answer is still the same.

Who claimed exports had been hit by it?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:08 pm  

1.6 million jobs created since the coalition came into office. Did someone mention job creation....