Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 6:27 am  

Mintball wrote:

Statutory rape.

In the case of consensual sex between a girl just below 16 and a boy just past his sixteenth birthday?

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 6:35 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

The problem is in the reporting of course, that is the reporting in the media, it makes a very nice soundbite if you use the word "rape" without explaining the circumstances in each of the five, yes just five cases out of 29,000 that were dealt with by caution - five cases are very simple to examine and explain in a paragraph but doing so would spoil the thrust of the article which is to criticise the practice rather than explain it.

A simple statement from The Met would put the story to bed, its obvious that there is no systematic dismissal of every rape case by means of dealing with it as a caution, it obvious that there are strict guidelines as to when cautions can be used in rape cases, its quite probable that the decisions aren't even being made by police officers at all, but none of this is reported by the media because being sensible about issues will not sell newspapers and TV channels.

Perhaps you could offer an example of when you think it's appropriate to deal with rape by way of a caution.

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 7:55 am  

Rock God X wrote:

In the case of consensual sex between a girl just below 16 and a boy just past his sixteenth birthday?

Right, well apparently, the term isn't used in UK law, but the concept is sex with anyone who is underage.

I do recall the prosecution (in Wales, IIRC), a few years ago, of a 15-year-old male for having consensual sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend. She wasn't prosecuted. He was put on the Sex Offenders' Register.

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 8:17 am  

Rock God X wrote:

Perhaps you could offer an example of when you think it's appropriate to deal with rape by way of a caution.

I would imagine it's when all the evidence has been gathered & considered and the CPS has come back with a zero chance of getting a conviction

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 8:36 am  

Mintball wrote:

Right, well apparently, the term isn't used in UK law, but the concept is sex with anyone who is underage.

.

It's not, though. In the UK, it's only classed as rape if the person is less than 13 years of age. It's obviously still an offence to have (consensual) sex with a person who is aged between 13 and 15, but the offence is not rape.

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 8:39 am  

cod'ead wrote:

I would imagine it's when all the evidence has been gathered & considered and the CPS has come back with a zero chance of getting a conviction

In order to be able to give a caution, the perpetrator must have to admit their guilt. If a person confesses to having raped another person, I'd imagine the chances of a successful conviction would be pretty good.

[DaveO]

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 8:59 am  

Big Graeme wrote:

Perverting the course of justice is a serious crime and rightly carries a custodial sentence, in a country when the law is upheld with the consent of the people it can't be seen to be held in contempt by its citizens.

It's a matter or proportion. I didn't suggest they not be found guilty nor that they were not sanctioned in some way. I suggest when we lock them up for that yet issue cautions as reported in article I linked to then the law will be held in contempt by its citizens.

It's not just the sentencing either. It's the effort and expense that went into it all in comparison to the crimes being let off with a caution.

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 9:30 am  

Rock God X wrote:

Perhaps you could offer an example of when you think it's appropriate to deal with rape by way of a caution.

No, mainly because I don't possess any of the facts appertaining to this careless bit of reporting and I suspect that the reporter didn't either or didn't care to ask the very relevant follow-on question.

I'll make one up for you if you like though - a male is accused of rape by a female who he has been in a relationship with, he denies it stating it was consensual, the CPS opinion is that it will be one word against the other in court and put it to the accused that he can accept a caution with no record on the sex offenders list, or take his chance in court.

There, I've made that up completely and am not even sure if its a valid example, but its plausible, the truth is that it will have been done after careful consideration by the agencies concerned and isn't just some copper pushing a file across his desk and saying "Oh I can't be arsed with this, give him a bloody caution, I'm off home".

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 10:02 am  

Rock God X wrote:

In order to be able to give a caution, the perpetrator must have to admit their guilt. If a person confesses to having raped another person, I'd imagine the chances of a successful conviction would be pretty good.

It's not entirely unknown for an "innocent" party to be "persuaded" that it would be simpler to cop a caution than face the prospect of trial with all the attendant publicity and stigma

Re: Huhne and Pryce out : Tue May 14, 2013 11:00 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

No, mainly because I don't possess any of the facts appertaining to this careless bit of reporting and I suspect that the reporter didn't either or didn't care to ask the very relevant follow-on question.

I'll make one up for you if you like though - a male is accused of rape by a female who he has been in a relationship with, he denies it stating it was consensual, the CPS opinion is that it will be one word against the other in court and put it to the accused that he can accept a caution with no record on the sex offenders list, or take his chance in court.

There, I've made that up completely and am not even sure if its a valid example, but its plausible, the truth is that it will have been done after careful consideration by the agencies concerned and isn't just some copper pushing a file across his desk and saying "Oh I can't be arsed with this, give him a bloody caution, I'm off home".

Not to mention the fact that some people who have been raped or sexually assaulted are often unwilling to go through the whole court process.