LOL - thats not just a timebomb, its a nuclear weapon of mass destruction for the Conservatives and especially for the LibDems if they ever put their name to any such legislation - what 20-something year-old is ever going to vote for either of them for the rest of their life when they find that they've been royally shafted and their student loans aren't ever going to be paid off, for the rest of their lives - its like a constant reminder at every annual statement that you were sold down the river by two political party's who are now knocking on your door and asking you to vote for them again

The problem is that Osbourne, Cameron & Clegg will be thinking 'whats another £25 a month, a half bottle of decent red'

Surprisingly this seems to have been conveniently ignored by the loony left on here eh Mr Fish!!

You wouldn't get a decent half bottle of red for that

Ey up, the real world must've broken up for the weekend.

I seriously doubt that the BNFL pension scheme was comparable to Royal Mail's scheme. They certainly had nowhere close to the number of members, RM's pension scheme has more members than even the NHS. I also doubt BNFL's pension deficit was nywhere close to RM's £9bn

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/mar/19/royal-mail-pension-transfer-meansMore here[/url

Looks like Osborne wants to get his grubby mits on the £28bn of assets and then spread the £37bn of liabilities over the coming years. Another brilliant deal for the taxpayers

It isn't about the numbers is it - it is about the principle - you do actually agree the same protocol has been applied?

Why would any private company want to accept a pension fund deficit of this size on such a marginal business? The business itself is technically insolvent i.e. it has a negative balance sheet. On that basis it is worth nothing. So if you want to sell it then what options do you have. This is a marginal business at best and a deep financial pit at worst. It doesn't appear the public sector can run it with even a small surplus at operating level so surely it would be better to let somebody else have a go?

So that's how business is conducted in the real world? Privatise the profits and socialise any losses and liabilities?

Some free market that is

If this was a private company the pension losses would never have got that big, the arrangements would have been changed to minimise the exposure. If this were a private company the pension deficit would have taken it under years ago. This is the cost of public ownership - something you need to reflect on when espousing public ownership as the true way!!

No wonder the government want rid of it.

Increase profits by paying staff too little to live and socialising (in effect) this so that taxpayers pick up the difference through in-work benefits, including, but not limited to, housing benefit (which itself also sees the taxpayer increasing the profits of private businesses/individuals).

It's not really insolvent as it can meet its obligations, the majority of its liabilities being long term. Also just because a company has zero net worth does not necessarily mean it is worth nothing.
Since it seems so difficult to run at a profit then I think most people would question the wisdom of placing it into a situation where it has to make a profit or die. It would seem, to me at least, an ideal organisation to be run and partly subsidised by the public sector.


The Royal Mail introduced a new DC pension scheme 5 years ago.
11 FTSE 100 companies have pension deficits greater than their EMV. 3 huge British corporations are committed to paying out pensions worth double their market value.

I agree. Unfortunately, as signatories to (not to mention co-authors of) the WTO any attempt to subsidise domestic businesses leaves us wide open to lawsuits by national and international competitors (UPS, DHL etc.) for unfair competition and loss of income. The figures would undoubtedly be big and sans some special exemption for Royal Mail (the proposed sale of which seems a good indicator of its non-existence) we (us) foot the bill.

It's interesting how few in the media are willing to mention this crucially important factor whenever governments decide to sell off public assets. As motivators go I'd say the threat of being taken to the cleaners in secret, unelected and unaccountable courts by foreign corporations demanding their right to equal treatment is just that bit more credible than unproven ideological guff about private = better.

How is it possible to have any faith in our system of democracy when treaties of such magnitude (at the very least comparable with those EU agreements the Tories never cease harping about) can be proposed, authored and signed over a period of years with almost no discussion beyond the endless mantra "Free Trade" (the definition of which is never stated) with the resulting consequences practically never mentioned as motivators for government policy?

I had a quick look at a few old union papers this morning and we started resisiting privatisation twenty three years ago. I think we will try and fight this one and if and only if the Tories can not get what they want for it, then it will proceed. Its too close to an election and the Tories ( both parties) will not want a row going on about being ripped off. One thing is for sure the mail system will alter for the worse forever, Monday to Friday deliveries , universal tariff etc, because no private company will continue with Royal Mails current profit sapping delivery system. The Labour party has not been very supportive and wanted to sell us off earlier, the country has bigger problems then RM to worry about.

Why whould not people living in the Orkneys, Cornwall or the depths of Scotland pay more for mail and people living in London, Birmingham and Glasgow pay less. Why should people have six day a week deliveries when we can do it in five and make bigger profits, we could deliver three days a week to some rural area's. Changes are a foot now to alter the delivery times to even later in the day, decisions are now taken on cost grounds not quality of service. They are doing things now to alter the way we organise the union, not to save money but at a cost to the business to destroy our organisational structures at local and national levels. Bullying and harrassment are part of working for Royal Mail, its part of our daily working day and its not coming from the public or our brothers and sisters. The place is no longer the same, there is no longer the same will to help each other people are now more dog eat dog too many "bosses knarks" around willing to drop you in it.

The mail centre where I work is due to close this October, so no one gives a toss either way anymore. No chance of getting anyone motivated for a fight for privatisation, pay rises or TNT mail, most are looking to a pay off and a new job. Sure they all voted in the consultative ballot, BECAUSE THATS ALL IT WAS A, ask them on a full rule 19 strike ballot and I bet the result will be a whole lot different.

I do not intend retiring just yet, I could go and some say I maybe should given my health. I am still able to perform my duties with little problem and I will continue for a while longer, but I am sorry for those at the begining of there RM service whilst I consider myself very lucky to near the end. In what itme I have left I will continue to fight to make it a better place for those left.