FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Dorries - a case for de-selection?
::Off-topic discussion.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 09 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
20th May 16 14:5420th May 16 10:16LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:43 am  
I suppose the moral of the story is "seek and ye shall find" or stuff...

The motion that was voted on earlier this week was an Opposition Day motion, winning this vote would not have affected anything other than to show opposition, it wouldn't have forced a re-think of the rules/law - Greg Mulholland took a bit of flak on twitter the other night after his abstaining and this was his response...

@gregmulholland1 motion only tabled today! Opposition days are expressions of opposition, don't change law but campaigning can.


@gregmulholland1 opposition day about opposition, votes cannot change policy. Only votes on legislation & decisions of Govt can.


The Early Day Motion that he put his name to is on the same subject but not connected to the Opposition Day vote.

Still sounds a bit strange to me but to a politician I'm sure it all makes perfect sense.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman37704No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 25 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
7th Aug 18 19:077th Aug 18 19:06LINK
Milestone Posts
30000
40000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Signature
The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:28 am  
JerryChicken wrote:
I suppose the moral of the story is "seek and ye shall find" or stuff...

The motion that was voted on earlier this week was an Opposition Day motion, winning this vote would not have affected anything other than to show opposition, it wouldn't have forced a re-think of the rules/law - Greg Mulholland took a bit of flak on twitter the other night after his abstaining and this was his response...

The Early Day Motion that he put his name to is on the same subject but not connected to the Opposition Day vote.

Still sounds a bit strange to me but to a politician I'm sure it all makes perfect sense.


He didn't abstain on the Opposition motion, he abstained on the government amendment.

Basically the opposition proposal was:

“That this House regrets the pernicious effect on vulnerable and in many cases disabled people of deductions being made from housing benefit paid to working age tenants in the social housing sector deemed to have an excess number of bedrooms in their homes…”

The government then amended it to:

“Line 1, leave out from ‘House’ to end and add ‘notes the substantial structural deficit which was inherited from the previous Government and the need to get the nation’s finances back into shape; further notes the need to bring expenditure on housing benefit under control; further notes that the reversal of this policy would cost the Exchequer around half a billion pounds a year…”

Amendments are always voted first and as can be seen, the government managed to get a vote on "it's all Labour's fault", rather than the proposed motion.

So basically Mullholland abstained from blaming Labour for the nation's financial state.

What a waste of a fecking day
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 09 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
20th May 16 14:5420th May 16 10:16LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:03 pm  
cod'ead wrote:
So basically Mullholland abstained from blaming Labour for the nation's financial state.

What a waste of a fecking day



More like a waste of five years.

It'll soon be over though.
DaveO 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Moderator14395No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years335th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th May 24 14:0028th May 22 23:44LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Chester
Signature
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Moderator

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:17 pm  
JerryChicken wrote:
An MP who campaigns for better beer for everyone and is a big RL fan, whats not to like ?


How did he vote on the governments NHS bill? If he voted for it or even simply abstained "wha'ts not to like" ? Plenty!

He may give the pretence of being different to the Tories with the odd abstention but he is just like the rest of of his Lib Dem colleagues, an enabler of Tory drafted legislation and not to be trusted.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 09 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
20th May 16 14:5420th May 16 10:16LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:03 pm  
DaveO wrote:
How did he vote on the governments NHS bill? If he voted for it or even simply abstained "wha'ts not to like" ? Plenty!

He may give the pretence of being different to the Tories with the odd abstention but he is just like the rest of of his Lib Dem colleagues, an enabler of Tory drafted legislation and not to be trusted.



The problem is, I don't see anyone in the Labour Party I'd want to pin my vote on to either, seriously, if the general election was anytime before May '14 rather than May '15 I could see a majority Tory win, and thats painful to say.
DaveO 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Moderator14395No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years335th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th May 24 14:0028th May 22 23:44LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Chester
Signature
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Moderator

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:55 pm  
JerryChicken wrote:
The problem is, I don't see anyone in the Labour Party I'd want to pin my vote on to either, seriously, if the general election was anytime before May '14 rather than May '15 I could see a majority Tory win, and thats painful to say.


I am not sure why you think that given they are not polling anything like well enough to gain an overall majority and that is before any UKIP defections get in the way.

As to not wanting to pin your vote on anyone in the Labour party then to simplify the debate you can either vote for one of the parties who will retain the bedroom tax or the one that will scrap it

The bloke who won the selection for Labour here in Chester was not may choice. He did have the backing of a group of Labour activists and I am immediately suspicious of such cleaks as IMO they are factional but I guess that is how politics is whatever party you support.

He will still get my vote despite my reservations. There are plenty of local issues here at the moment ranging from building on the green belt to severe cuts by the council. If our current Tory MP was any help in any of those issues I'd still have to vote against him at the next election as I know he'd be up there voting for things like the stupid amendment mentioned above.

On that subject I must admit I am amazed such a government amendment was proposed to oppose the Labour position. It says to me they had no justifiable argument against it and by playing politics and trying to move the debate away from the issue showed they are as nasty as they have always been.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
In The Arms of 13 Angels14522No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 26 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
30th Jan 14 14:039th Jan 14 11:22LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Online
Signature
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:09 am  
DaveO wrote:
...The bloke who won the selection for Labour here in Chester was not may choice. He did have the backing of a group of Labour activists and I am immediately suspicious of such cleaks as IMO they are factional but I guess that is how politics is whatever party you support...

This is the bit that, to me, is lacking in democratic authenticity.
The central offices of the parties and small local cliques decide who we can vote for.

On the abstention issue, I would have much less of a problem if the LimpDems (for which read "Nick Clegg") and the Tories had made it clear when they formed a coalition just what the deal was.
As it stands, the deal seems to benefit only the Tories.
What Clegg should have done in 2010 was to only agree to vote yes on issues that they agree with, to abstain on stated issues they disagree with and vote no on stated issues that are beyond the line.
Clegg didn't do that.
He dishonestly U-turned on the issues where his manifesto differed from that of the Tories (that I consider were the ones for which he got general election votes in 2010).
Add to that the hopelessly ineffectual performances of Clegg and Cable since 2010 and Danny Alexander's Damascene conversion to the Tory cause, and they have right royally fecked it up for 2015.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 09 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
20th May 16 14:5420th May 16 10:16LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:36 am  
An interesting read

Just how much should an MP be allowed to claim in overnight expenses and/or London accomodation and why can some manage on less than £5000 and other require in excess of £20,000 ?
An interesting read

Just how much should an MP be allowed to claim in overnight expenses and/or London accomodation and why can some manage on less than £5000 and other require in excess of £20,000 ?
DaveO 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Moderator14395No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years335th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th May 24 14:0028th May 22 23:44LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Chester
Signature
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Moderator

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:18 am  
El Barbudo wrote:
This is the bit that, to me, is lacking in democratic authenticity.
The central offices of the parties and small local cliques decide who we can vote for.


That wasn't quite how it went. There was plenty of choice but as it turned out there was what you might call the establishment candidate. I am still not sure which bit of establishment the candidate was a member of so perhaps it would be better to say he was a member of a clique of Labour party activists with a particular set of views.

I had a postal vote and after I had sent mine in I got a mailshot with several people urging me to support the eventual winner. Names who I recognised so I reckon he certainly had far more of an election machine behind him than any of the others.

So it was "one man and his dog candidates" v's someone with some organisation behind him.


On the abstention issue, I would have much less of a problem if the LimpDems (for which read "Nick Clegg") and the Tories had made it clear when they formed a coalition just what the deal was.
As it stands, the deal seems to benefit only the Tories.
What Clegg should have done in 2010 was to only agree to vote yes on issues that they agree with, to abstain on stated issues they disagree with and vote no on stated issues that are beyond the line.
Clegg didn't do that.
He dishonestly U-turned on the issues where his manifesto differed from that of the Tories (that I consider were the ones for which he got general election votes in 2010).
Add to that the hopelessly ineffectual performances of Clegg and Cable since 2010 and Danny Alexander's Damascene conversion to the Tory cause, and they have right royally fecked it up for 2015.


I'd agree with most of that and for me the NHS "reforms" are the big red line the Lib Dems should never have crossed. Instead we had Shirley Williams running around trying to suggest it wasn't all that bad and Lansey didn't really mean what he said in an attempt to get the party to back the reforms. She and they seemed far too wrapped up as being a party in government and toeing the collective responsibility line than exerting the kind of influence people rightly expected them to do.

Where it went wrong was the simply divvying up of various policies and departments. What that meant was the Tories got the NHS to do as they wished with and so when the Tories pulled the reforms out of the hat, as it is a Tory department, the Lib Dems support them in ramming through a right wing agenda. In exchange for what I am not sure!

The whole coalition agreement was a rush job without the proper kind of negotiations that countries who are used to coalitions enter into and boy does it show what a mess was made of it from the Lib Dem perspective.

I am sure most people didn't expect the coalition to work as it has done with Tory policies for which there is no mandate being implemented seemingly without challenge.

When they can't even support Labour over the bedroom tax when the Lib Dem conference disowns it then you have to wonder what on earth foes through the heads of the Lib Dem MP's.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
In The Arms of 13 Angels14522No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 26 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
30th Jan 14 14:039th Jan 14 11:22LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Online
Signature
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Re: Dorries - a case for de-selection? : Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:43 am  
DaveO wrote:
...The whole coalition agreement was a rush job without the proper kind of negotiations that countries who are used to coalitions enter into and boy does it show what a mess was made of it from the Lib Dem perspective...

Agreed.
All the more jaw-dropping in that the Lib Dems were the party who stood to gain most from a hung parliament and were utterly, utterly unprepared for it.
And, in the process, the prospect of PR ever being adopted (their flagship policy) has become but a tarnished dream.
So, what's the point of the LibDems now?
Lobby fodder, no more than that.
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 102 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Sin Bin


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
10m
Transfer Talk V5
HucknallLoin
529
14m
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
15
24m
Pre Season - 2025
HU8HFC
196
30m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2614
41m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63280
42m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40814
44m
Film game
Boss Hog
5787
Recent
Squad numbers
[Gareth]
1
Recent
Getting a new side to gel
Bullseye
6
Recent
Ground Improvements
vastman
203
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
42s
Shopping list for 2025
HU8HFC
5588
42s
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
NickyKiss
15
46s
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
2
1m
Squad numbers
[Gareth]
1
1m
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
1m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
212
2m
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
50
3m
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28905
4m
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
7m
2025 Shirt
--[ WW ]--
22
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Squad numbers
[Gareth]
1
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
2
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
15
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Getting a new side to gel
Bullseye
6
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
10m
Transfer Talk V5
HucknallLoin
529
14m
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
15
24m
Pre Season - 2025
HU8HFC
196
30m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2614
41m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63280
42m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40814
44m
Film game
Boss Hog
5787
Recent
Squad numbers
[Gareth]
1
Recent
Getting a new side to gel
Bullseye
6
Recent
Ground Improvements
vastman
203
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
42s
Shopping list for 2025
HU8HFC
5588
42s
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
NickyKiss
15
46s
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
2
1m
Squad numbers
[Gareth]
1
1m
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
1m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
212
2m
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
50
3m
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28905
4m
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
7m
2025 Shirt
--[ WW ]--
22
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Squad numbers
[Gareth]
1
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
2
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
15
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Getting a new side to gel
Bullseye
6
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!