Re: The break up of the Union : Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:47 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As has been pointed out before - you are either in favour of democracy or not - you can't be democratic and only support democracy when you win. Why should 5m hold sway over the other 65m its not how it works. Why should 48 MPs have any power against 600 MPs - it reflects the population mix too c7%. its odd that they are even in the UK parliament given they have their own assembly?

I appreciate for you lefties - you know what's best for everyone - and anyone who has a different view is simply stupid but that's dictatorship not democracy. No doubt you think Corbyn won the argument and how could these thick northerners not see it!!

I have no issue with Scotland leaving - As you quote says - I would let them have the vote. What was must avoid is the misunderstanding that "people didn't know what they were voting for". It is certain that Queen Nicola will only push the perceived positives of leaving the union.

On a positive Labour will never get into power again without the help of the big number of MPs from Scotland. Plus the weeble will wobble back off to Skye

Oh the irony!

Re: The break up of the Union : Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:02 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Oh the irony!

Nobody said leaving the EU would not be without challenges - it remains to be seen whether theses challenges are insurmountable I'm sure you have your fingers crossed

Re: The break up of the Union : Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:22 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Nobody said leaving the EU would not be without challenges

As it's panto season. Oh yes they did.

Gerard Batten: "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

David Davis: “there will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Michael Gove: “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

John Redwood: "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation"

[Mild Rover]

Re: The break up of the Union : Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:58 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

As it's panto season. Oh yes they did.

Gerard Batten: "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

David Davis: “there will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Michael Gove: “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

John Redwood: "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation"

Very good.

Sal’s triple negative adds a confusing wrinkle, tbf.

Expectations have been managed since the referendum and the dire warnings from the Brexit sceptics have lowered them further. For a lot of us, anything better than very bad will be a win/relief. However, I think there are sections of the electorate still anticipating a Brexit dividend.

Re: The break up of the Union : Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:05 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

As it's panto season. Oh yes they did.

Gerard Batten: "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

David Davis: “there will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Michael Gove: “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

John Redwood: "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation"

Redwood and Gove were correct it could have been had it not been for the remain side putting up every barrier to stop it. Nobody actually knows how things will pan out if/when we leave with no deal - its never been done before and we all know how accurate economic forecasting is!!

The referendum was lost on two areas: immigration and who writes our laws. The EU are now in a tricky spot - they can play two ends off against the middle as they could before. We are in for an interesting 2020.

Re: The break up of the Union : Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:06 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Very good.

Sal’s triple negative adds a confusing wrinkle, tbf.

Expectations have been managed since the referendum and the dire warnings from the Brexit sceptics have lowered them further. For a lot of us, anything better than very bad will be a win/relief. However, I think there are sections of the electorate still anticipating a Brexit dividend.

I don't think there is anyone out there expecting a boost from leaving - what people are expecting is a country that can control its laws and its borders - simple as.

Re: The break up of the Union : Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:09 am  

Jukesays wrote:

Oh the irony!

At least with Brexit you had two sides spinning lies - who in Scotland is going to campaign to stay in the union - there will be no counter-voice to Queen Nicola.

It was just the same for Labour and Brexit - who in Labour was going to campaign for leave?

Re: The break up of the Union : Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:20 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I don't think there is anyone out there expecting a boost from leaving - what people are expecting is a country that can control its laws and its borders - simple asa.

I've read plenty of pieces and comments, from people on both sides of the political divide, who believe that immigration from Eastern Europe is driving down wages, and leaving the EU will give a boost to British worker's wages.

Don't forget the 'cheaper food, clothing and footwear' comment from Jacob Rees-Mogg either. Although anyone expecting to suddenly be able to afford a pair of John Lobbs, a Brioni suit and Beluga caviar is going to mightily disappointed.

Re: The break up of the Union : Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:11 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Redwood and Gove were correct it could have been had it not been for the remain side putting up every barrier to stop it. Nobody actually knows how things will pan out if/when we leave with no deal - its never been done before and we all know how accurate economic forecasting is!!

The referendum was lost on two areas: immigration and who writes our laws. The EU are now in a tricky spot - they can play two ends off against the middle as they could before. We are in for an interesting 2020.

Can someone Remind me again what the ERG et al did to PM May when she came back with one of her early "Easy" Deals?
Did they vote with her?

Re: The break up of the Union : Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:23 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

I'Although anyone expecting to suddenly be able to afford a pair of John Lobbs, a Brioni suit and Beluga caviar is going to mightily disappointed.

You are talking high end, saught after brands, not day to day purchases.