Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:37 am  

Cronus wrote:

Labour are so full of shieete it's untrue. They 'respect' Brexit. They won't back the deal, which will most likely drive us to no deal. They want a General Election. They think they can somehow drive a harder bargain with the EU. I've never wanted to punch a politician so much as listening to John McDonald over the last few days. The lies spewing forth are dizzying.

Given the tailspin the Tories are in, that's quite the hot take; you have a PM doggedly ploughing on with a "deal" that nobody supports, warring factions of the party appearing on TV to brief against each other, and various incompetent buffoons talking openly about being the next leader - including the unconscionably vile Esther McVey; and in the middle of all that, news broke this weekend that the Government has paid 2 million quid of public money to a fake charity, to manufacture and spread smears and lies about the leader of the HM opposition. Oh and lets not forget being the first Government in UK history to be found in contempt of Parliament...

But in the middle of all that, it's important to remember that Diane Abbot once got some numbers wrong on the telly, you don't find Angela Merkel attractive, and that Lisa Nandy is on telly a lot; smells like desperation to me - can you see it all falling apart?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:49 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The biggest problem in this whole process has been the quality of the negotiating on our side - shambolic at best incompetent at worst.

Although I agree with you that the strong & stable Tories are pathetic, the biggest problem is that, apart from xenophobia & racism, most people didn't know what they were voting for (or what they would get).

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:00 am  

Cronus wrote:

I've never wanted to punch a politician so much as listening to John McDonald over the last few days.

Have you got one of them fancy tellies that blanks out the faces & words spewing forth from Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois, Esther McVey, etc etc (does that cover the ones who boasted about hanging & knifing their leader?) plus the medieval fascists in NI?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:37 am  

tigertot wrote:

Have you got one of them fancy tellies that blanks out the faces & words spewing forth from Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois, Esther McVey, etc etc (does that cover the ones who boasted about hanging & knifing their leader?) plus the medieval fascists in NI?

Although I would put all of those politicians on the "hit (punch)" list, Corbyn and McDonald should be on there with them.
These two are bothered about nothing, apart from getting a shot at the "big time".

You would be hard pressed to find out any of Labours shadow cabinets views on brexit as they just sway with the political breeze, waiting for their chance in a general election and when their time does come (if it comes), we may find out where they actually stand on the issue.

Had Corbyn had the balls to say what his views were during the referendum campaign, we may not have ended up in the current mess, although he wouldn't have been quite as close to sitting in the big chair.


It does beg the question of many of our "top" politicians as to whether personal gain should be put in front of what is best for the country.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:16 pm  

bren2k wrote:

can you see it all falling apart?

When you take a step back and view the debacle as a whole, it's a thing of wonder to behold. There's a lunatic fringe who are pushing for an absolute train wreck, not just a minor collision, but a total catastrophic derailment. And there's a small bunch of headbangers who are advocating the ensuing carnage. The rest are squabbling among themselves as to whether we should be in or out, and in turn, are trying to agree on a slightly more acceptable level of chaos.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:52 pm  

Strong & stable.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:41 pm  

So, last week we had the first Government ever to be in contempt of Parliament, now the meaningful vote pulled at the eleventh hour.

What a shambolic state of affairs the Tories have inflicted on the country -

The mother of Parliaments, what a crock.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:59 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Given the tailspin the Tories are in, that's quite the hot take; you have a PM doggedly ploughing on with a "deal" that nobody supports, warring factions of the party appearing on TV to brief against each other, and various incompetent buffoons talking openly about being the next leader - including the unconscionably vile Esther McVey; and in the middle of all that, news broke this weekend that the Government has paid 2 million quid of public money to a fake charity, to manufacture and spread smears and lies about the leader of the HM opposition. Oh and lets not forget being the first Government in UK history to be found in contempt of Parliament...

Are you sure 'nobody' supports it? Plenty seem to, probably as many as support any other single faction. The real problem is for all those adopting a reasonable stance of "it's not perfect but it'll do", is that you're up against every other argument:
- hard Remainers
- People's Voters
- hard Brexiteers
- hard anti-Tories
- Labour's priority of pushing a General Election
...and everyone else along the scale somewhere inbetween playing their own political games. So it's likely ANY deal will get voted down. Which ever way you stack it the numbers add up to a messy exit. The same would be true of any government in the same situation.

May has taken the only option and it's not actually a bad idea. Her main opponents are saying they can't vote for the deal unless the backstop and a few other guarantees are renegotiated. So she goes to the EU and asks the questions. If the EU agrees, those opponents now have to honour their word, and if the EU says no it's clear there simply is no other deal. Remain isn't going to happen so it's May's deal or over the edge we go. By going back to the EU she either comes out with a better deal or having called everyone's bluff.

The EU, btw, who all along have said they will not renegotiate - and immediately reiterated that today several times over.

But in the middle of all that, it's important to remember that Diane Abbot once got some numbers wrong on the telly, you don't find Angela Merkel attractive, and that Lisa Nandy is on telly a lot; smells like desperation to me - can you see it all falling apart?

Lighten up, just a bit of fun.

But saying that I'll never back down on Abbott. The idea she could end up in government is truly terrifying.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:03 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Although I would put all of those politicians on the "hit (punch)" list, Corbyn and McDonald should be on there with them.
These two are bothered about nothing, apart from getting a shot at the "big time".

You would be hard pressed to find out any of Labours shadow cabinets views on brexit as they just sway with the political breeze, waiting for their chance in a general election and when their time does come (if it comes), we may find out where they actually stand on the issue.

Had Corbyn had the balls to say what his views were during the referendum campaign, we may not have ended up in the current mess, although he wouldn't have been quite as close to sitting in the big chair.

It does beg the question of many of our "top" politicians as to whether personal gain should be put in front of what is best for the country.

You have no idea how reassuring it is to realise that other people can see this, especially those of a left-wing persuasion (Labour voter? - I'm not sure).

If Corbyn had been truly honest during the referendum we'd be out, no ifs and no buts, with a Labour vote in support. He's never been a lover of the EU but as you say, he prefers opportunities to score political points, and he couldn't risk alienating his reinvigorated youth vote.

I almost pitied Barry Gardiner last night, he was clearly under strict instruction to turn the debate into a Labour party political broadcast and a push for a General Election. Unfortunately for him most could see through it and he instead he just looked oddly like a sweaty Ricky Gervais.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:05 am  

tigertot wrote:

Have you got one of them fancy tellies that blanks out the faces & words spewing forth from Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois, Esther McVey, etc etc (does that cover the ones who boasted about hanging & knifing their leader?) plus the medieval fascists in NI?

Why would I pay particular attention to them?