Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:21 am  

cod'ead wrote: The 2.62 millions came from that left-wing rag The Evening Standard The London Evening Standard? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-un ... rnalSearch The number of people out of work has fallen to its lowest level in more than four years, raising hopes of a strong rebound from the recession. The jobless total dropped 99,000 to 2.39 million, a rate of 7.4 per cent, in the three months to October — and the number of people in work rose above 30 million for the first time on record.

cod'ead wrote: The 2.62 millions came from that left-wing rag The Evening Standard The London Evening Standard? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-un ... rnalSearch The number of people out of work has fallen to its lowest level in more than four years, raising hopes of a strong rebound from the recession. The jobless total dropped 99,000 to 2.39 million, a rate of 7.4 per cent, in the three months to October — and the number of people in work rose above 30 million for the first time on record.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:21 am  

I remember the unemployment figures being "massaged" under that womans tyrannical time.
What they did was make claiming unemployment benefit more difficult along with other associated benefits.(sound familiar?)

Then, as was always spouted via the media "the number of unemployed, AND CLAIMING BENEFITS has gone down again" thus proving that governments assertion that they had policies that benefited everyone and that people were in work.
As usual with a tory government, it was a con trick, unemployment reached levels that were morally unacceptable and created generations of unemployable people. Money flooded out of the country to tax havens quicker than you could say boo and businesses were fighting each other to see which 3rd world sweat shops could produce their product at a fraction of the cost whilst still charging the consumer top whack and creating even bigger profit margins for the few.

It is unlikely though that such a situation would ever occur again, isnt it

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:53 am  

Leaguefan wrote:

I remember the unemployment figures being "massaged" under that womans tyrannical time.
What they did was make claiming unemployment benefit more difficult along with other associated benefits.(sound familiar?)

Then, as was always spouted via the media "the number of unemployed, AND CLAIMING BENEFITS has gone down again" thus proving that governments assertion that they had policies that benefited everyone and that people were in work.
As usual with a tory government, it was a con trick, unemployment reached levels that were morally unacceptable and created generations of unemployable people. Money flooded out of the country to tax havens quicker than you could say boo and businesses were fighting each other to see which 3rd world sweat shops could produce their product at a fraction of the cost whilst still charging the consumer top whack and creating even bigger profit margins for the few.

It is unlikely though that such a situation would ever occur again, isnt it

When your senior advisors and Ministers base your party's policies around the principle that "unemployment is a price worth paying" then you're starting from a fairly inequitable position.

When you employ henchmen to keep you at arms length from your assertions that even the severely disabled and terminally ill are "fit to work" and should not be financially supported by the state then again you're starting from a fairly inequitable position.

Cameron has at least learned from his predecessors and stood some fall guys in front of him, he gets very little of the flak as a leader but when you have the perfect pantomime villain complete with built-in sneering face and a perfect history of failure in previous roles such as Ian Duncan Smith then you know you are on a winner - I can just see Cameron buzzing the intercom through to the IDS office, "Ian, I need to pop down to Tescos for some biscuits, come and walk ten yards in front of me will you..."

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:31 am  

DaveO wrote:

What surprises me is many on here who espouse a right wing view are also worse off under this government but just can't see it.

Then perhaps they're not worse off under this government, unless you know more about their own personal circumstances than they themselves do.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:47 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

When your senior advisors and Ministers base your party's policies around the principle that "unemployment is a price worth paying" then you're starting from a fairly inequitable position ...

Today, it's 'underemployment is a price worth paying because the only important thing is that they're not on the unemployed figures'.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:48 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

Then perhaps they're not worse off under this government, unless you know more about their own personal circumstances than they themselves do.

Well, we have had Sal Paradise telling us that he hasn't had a pay rise in three years – so he will certainly be worse off.

His response, unfortunately, is that nobody else should have one if he can't – certainly not those nasty nurses and teachers, what with their gold-plated pensions, and those homecare workers with their massive expense accounts.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:16 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Well, we have had Sal Paradise telling us that he hasn't had a pay rise in three years – so he will certainly be worse off.

His response, unfortunately, is that nobody else should have one if he can't – certainly not those nasty nurses and teachers, what with their gold-plated pensions, and those homecare workers with their massive expense accounts.

Whoa - I ask again for you to read what is written not what you want it to say. I have never said that because I haven't had a pay rise that nobody else should get one. If I have please show me where - otherwise show some class and retract the statement i.e. admit you where wrong.

So the second paragraph is just a figment of your warped imagination. As I has said before you sometimes behave like a child who doesn't get her own way - petty and immature, IMO you have a lot of growing up to do - being surrounded by the chattering classes on here does you no favours. No doubt Him, Mr Fish etc will jump to your defence security in numbers or perceived gravitas by association.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:48 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Well, we have had Sal Paradise telling us that he hasn't had a pay rise in three years – so he will certainly be worse off.

Not necessarily, if he/she has altered his/her outgoings. The crash (the only one, the one caused by the Labour party ) certainly made me alter my spending habits. Plenty of "Whoops" items in my freezer these days. In fact, I'm off to the supermarket in a bit for a bit of a rummage in the reduced section.

His response, unfortunately, is that nobody else should have one if he can't – certainly not those nasty nurses and teachers, what with their gold-plated pensions, and those homecare workers with their massive expense accounts.

I think he/she is disputing that point.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:48 am  

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/21/iain-duncan-smith-trussell-trust-food-bank_n_4486547.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Meanwhile the ever-popular Ian Duncan Smith and his Dept for Work and Pensions continue to paint themselves into a corner on the topic of foodbanks and in particular their continued refusals to meet with one of the largest foodbank organisers The Trussell trust, preferring instead to blame foodbanks for the rise in foodbanks. Indeed a DWP spokeswoman said "The Trussell Trust itself says it is opening three new foodbanks every week, so it's not surprising more people are using them." So there you have it straight from the DWp themselves, its nothing to do with poverty or forcing the unwaged and low waged to turn to charity for the basic foodstuffs via the medium of turning off their benefits, its the fact that the Trussell Trust is expanding quicker than any of the well known supermarkets can keep up to - of course its obvious really isn't it, you open up a foodbank and people will come, not because they are in dire need but because you give them free food - why didn't we notice this before, all hail the DWP for pointing this out. What they fail to acknowledge, spectacularly fail to acknowledge, time and again, and again, is that I (for instance) could not walk into a Trussell trust foodbank in the same way that I do with Asda and demand a food parcel of free basic foodstuffs, toilet paper and sanitary towels (yes, those also), and neither can anyone else - you have to be referred to them by a qualifying authority which could be a doctor, health visitor, social worker, CAB and even the police, and arrive at the door with a qualifying voucher where they are given three days supply of basic provisions and lots of free advice, and a cup of tea. Its not a lifestyle choice as the delightful Mr Duncan Smith seems to think it is, its not an alternative to the weekly shop down at Waitrose and the Trussell trust aren't opening three new outlets a week (some of which will be very temporary units) because they have a gaggle of wealthy shareholders clamouring for more and more dividend from their investments - they are emergency support centres which they would be happy to point out to the DWP if only they'd meet with them, but when you have the head of the DWP walking out a few minutes into a Commons debate on the issue you can see the problem that poverty charities have when trying to deal with these self centred single minded buffoons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/21/iain-duncan-smith-trussell-trust-food-bank_n_4486547.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Meanwhile the ever-popular Ian Duncan Smith and his Dept for Work and Pensions continue to paint themselves into a corner on the topic of foodbanks and in particular their continued refusals to meet with one of the largest foodbank organisers The Trussell trust, preferring instead to blame foodbanks for the rise in foodbanks. Indeed a DWP spokeswoman said "The Trussell Trust itself says it is opening three new foodbanks every week, so it's not surprising more people are using them." So there you have it straight from the DWp themselves, its nothing to do with poverty or forcing the unwaged and low waged to turn to charity for the basic foodstuffs via the medium of turning off their benefits, its the fact that the Trussell Trust is expanding quicker than any of the well known supermarkets can keep up to - of course its obvious really isn't it, you open up a foodbank and people will come, not because they are in dire need but because you give them free food - why didn't we notice this before, all hail the DWP for pointing this out. What they fail to acknowledge, spectacularly fail to acknowledge, time and again, and again, is that I (for instance) could not walk into a Trussell trust foodbank in the same way that I do with Asda and demand a food parcel of free basic foodstuffs, toilet paper and sanitary towels (yes, those also), and neither can anyone else - you have to be referred to them by a qualifying authority which could be a doctor, health visitor, social worker, CAB and even the police, and arrive at the door with a qualifying voucher where they are given three days supply of basic provisions and lots of free advice, and a cup of tea. Its not a lifestyle choice as the delightful Mr Duncan Smith seems to think it is, its not an alternative to the weekly shop down at Waitrose and the Trussell trust aren't opening three new outlets a week (some of which will be very temporary units) because they have a gaggle of wealthy shareholders clamouring for more and more dividend from their investments - they are emergency support centres which they would be happy to point out to the DWP if only they'd meet with them, but when you have the head of the DWP walking out a few minutes into a Commons debate on the issue you can see the problem that poverty charities have when trying to deal with these self centred single minded buffoons.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:42 am  

JerryChicken wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/21/iain-duncan-smith-trussell-trust-food-bank_n_4486547.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Meanwhile the ever-popular Ian Duncan Smith and his Dept for Work and Pensions continue to paint themselves into a corner on the topic of foodbanks and in particular their continued refusals to meet with one of the largest foodbank organisers The Trussell trust, preferring instead to blame foodbanks for the rise in foodbanks. Indeed a DWP spokeswoman said "The Trussell Trust itself says it is opening three new foodbanks every week, so it's not surprising more people are using them." So there you have it straight from the DWp themselves, its nothing to do with poverty or forcing the unwaged and low waged to turn to charity for the basic foodstuffs via the medium of turning off their benefits, its the fact that the Trussell Trust is expanding quicker than any of the well known supermarkets can keep up to - of course its obvious really isn't it, you open up a foodbank and people will come, not because they are in dire need but because you give them free food - why didn't we notice this before, all hail the DWP for pointing this out. What they fail to acknowledge, spectacularly fail to acknowledge, time and again, and again, is that I (for instance) could not walk into a Trussell trust foodbank in the same way that I do with Asda and demand a food parcel of free basic foodstuffs, toilet paper and sanitary towels (yes, those also), and neither can anyone else - you have to be referred to them by a qualifying authority which could be a doctor, health visitor, social worker, CAB and even the police, and arrive at the door with a qualifying voucher where they are given three days supply of basic provisions and lots of free advice, and a cup of tea. Its not a lifestyle choice as the delightful Mr Duncan Smith seems to think it is, its not an alternative to the weekly shop down at Waitrose and the Trussell trust aren't opening three new outlets a week (some of which will be very temporary units) because they have a gaggle of wealthy shareholders clamouring for more and more dividend from their investments - they are emergency support centres which they would be happy to point out to the DWP if only they'd meet with them, but when you have the head of the DWP walking out a few minutes into a Commons debate on the issue you can see the problem that poverty charities have when trying to deal with these self centred single minded buffoons. So they should be banned?

JerryChicken wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/21/iain-duncan-smith-trussell-trust-food-bank_n_4486547.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Meanwhile the ever-popular Ian Duncan Smith and his Dept for Work and Pensions continue to paint themselves into a corner on the topic of foodbanks and in particular their continued refusals to meet with one of the largest foodbank organisers The Trussell trust, preferring instead to blame foodbanks for the rise in foodbanks. Indeed a DWP spokeswoman said "The Trussell Trust itself says it is opening three new foodbanks every week, so it's not surprising more people are using them." So there you have it straight from the DWp themselves, its nothing to do with poverty or forcing the unwaged and low waged to turn to charity for the basic foodstuffs via the medium of turning off their benefits, its the fact that the Trussell Trust is expanding quicker than any of the well known supermarkets can keep up to - of course its obvious really isn't it, you open up a foodbank and people will come, not because they are in dire need but because you give them free food - why didn't we notice this before, all hail the DWP for pointing this out. What they fail to acknowledge, spectacularly fail to acknowledge, time and again, and again, is that I (for instance) could not walk into a Trussell trust foodbank in the same way that I do with Asda and demand a food parcel of free basic foodstuffs, toilet paper and sanitary towels (yes, those also), and neither can anyone else - you have to be referred to them by a qualifying authority which could be a doctor, health visitor, social worker, CAB and even the police, and arrive at the door with a qualifying voucher where they are given three days supply of basic provisions and lots of free advice, and a cup of tea. Its not a lifestyle choice as the delightful Mr Duncan Smith seems to think it is, its not an alternative to the weekly shop down at Waitrose and the Trussell trust aren't opening three new outlets a week (some of which will be very temporary units) because they have a gaggle of wealthy shareholders clamouring for more and more dividend from their investments - they are emergency support centres which they would be happy to point out to the DWP if only they'd meet with them, but when you have the head of the DWP walking out a few minutes into a Commons debate on the issue you can see the problem that poverty charities have when trying to deal with these self centred single minded buffoons. So they should be banned?