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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 am  
Good to see the UK democracy running properly.
Cant win the debate so, shut Parliament down to get your own way.

It's no wonder that Trump likes Boris, dictators in democrats clothes :CRAZY:

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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:07 am  
The outrage from the right-wing rags if a Labour Government had done this would be unimaginable.
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:15 am  
We need to circumvent democratic institutions and conventions in order to get our democracy back. What part of democracy don't you remoaners understand?
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:59 am  
wrencat1873 wrote:
If we leave with no deal, we will be using WTO terms for imports and exports, creating inflation and chaos in equal measure.

Regarding my assumption about you not having had to deal with the issues that SOME people, especially those on benefits have had to cope with.
Clearly, I'm not talking about those of us fortunate enough to be able to work and support our families or those "able to get of their backsides and do something about it" I'm talking about those who are far less fortunate and perhaps unable to work.
The current government now employs 3rd party companies, who are paid to "remove" people from the benefits system or slash the value of their income, which, although great in principle, means that certain groups, right at the bottom of the pile are being are being subjected to a level of abuse that is fundamentally wrong and personally, I believe is just as inhuman as the Windrush scandal.

As for a second referendum, I actually agree with you, it would just perpetuate the current situation.


Perhaps if we use our own produce or goods manufactured here that will reduce the chaos e.g. meat, vegetables etc. maybe the reduction in choice is a negative externality of Brexit - no bad thing in view.

Maybe my understanding is incorrect but I thought the object of the benefit system was to ensure that every person had a minimum net income - so if you are on a low salary the government tops that up to an agreed level. So slashing the amount people earn surely just increases the benefits the government has to pay to ensure the agreed minimum is adhered to?

Those who are unfortunately unable to work will see no difference which ever way Brexit goes - their benefits will be unchanged.
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:52 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Maybe my understanding is incorrect but I thought the object of the benefit system was to ensure that every person had a minimum net income - so if you are on a low salary the government tops that up to an agreed level. So slashing the amount people earn surely just increases the benefits the government has to pay to ensure the agreed minimum is adhered to?

Those who are unfortunately unable to work will see no difference which ever way Brexit goes - their benefits will be unchanged.

I'm genuinely a bit embarrassed for you that you're so unfamiliar with the benefits system and so lacking in empathy to find out or even care, that you think this is how it works.

Honestly, step out into reality once in a while. At the moment you're coming across like a parody of a Tory voter.
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:40 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Perhaps if we use our own produce or goods manufactured here that will reduce the chaos e.g. meat, vegetables etc. maybe the reduction in choice is a negative externality of Brexit - no bad thing in view.

Maybe my understanding is incorrect but I thought the object of the benefit system was to ensure that every person had a minimum net income - so if you are on a low salary the government tops that up to an agreed level. So slashing the amount people earn surely just increases the benefits the government has to pay to ensure the agreed minimum is adhered to?

Those who are unfortunately unable to work will see no difference which ever way Brexit goes - their benefits will be unchanged.


Oh dear, missing the point again :oops:
First of all, why the hell should we be doing anything that will his OURSELVES negatively ??
Secondly, the UK is a HUGE net importer, especially when you remove our invisible exports from the ledger.
Yes, we could use British bacon and lamb etc but, get real man.

Regarding benefits etc.
I'm not sure that any of us want to rely on benefits and those whop work full time and still receive them is a modern day scandal, effectively subsidising businesses for getting labour on the cheap.

Inflation will be the major factor, which will hit those in work, pensioners and those on benefits.

If you've been abroad since the referendum, you will have noticed that the exchange rate with the Euro is almost equal 1 pound = 1 euro (almost) and 1 pound = 1 dollar 22 cents

3 years ago (at the time of the referendum those rates were roughly 1.3 euros to the pound and 1.45 dollars to the pound. Therefore increasing the cost of everything that we buy based on those currencies, which will include China and India etc who tend to trade with the UK based on USD value.

This doesn't move inflation in a direct line. However you will notice everything from Mars Bars, Crisps etc all shrinking in size, which allows the manufacturers to hide some of the inflation.
However the very fact that the Pound has lost 30% of its value against the Euro, tells you just how strong the UK actually is.
WE keep being told that unemployment is down and employment is at record levels but, growth rates BEFORE any cliff edge economic shock, shot only 3 countries in the G20 (the top 20 nations in the world) with growth rates worse than ours and although there may be some small comfort in knowing that Germany isn't much better placed, our last quarter showed negative growth and it's vey likely that when the cliff edge is reached, the UK will actually be in recession and yet, certain politicians seem happy for us to take a further hit.

Boris is making public spending pledges on a daily basis, which may soften the overall effect of the slowdown but, where do you actually think the UK will be in 5 years time ? Better off, worse off or about the same.
Personally, I'm certain that in real terms (taking account of inflation) we will be worse off but who actually cares ?
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:04 pm  
wrencat1873 wrote:
Good to see the UK democracy running properly.
Cant win the debate so, shut Parliament down to get your own way.

It's no wonder that Trump likes Boris, dictators in democrats clothes :CRAZY:

Welcome to the future

The remain camp have tried to stop/delay brexit by any means possible over the past 3 years. Including Bercow using 400 year old laws going against centuries of protocol. Now Johnson has shut down parliament for 4 extra sitting days you would have thought the world was ending. Admitted its a sneaky/clever trick but you lot can't stand it when the boots on the other foot. What on earth are the MPs going to solve in those 4 days that they couldn't in 3 years anyway.
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:30 pm  
wotsupcas wrote:
The remain camp have tried to stop/delay brexit by any means possible over the past 3 years. Including Bercow using 400 year old laws going against centuries of protocol. Now Johnson has shut down parliament for 4 extra sitting days you would have thought the world was ending. Admitted its a sneaky/clever trick but you lot can't stand it when the boots on the other foot. What on earth are the MPs going to solve in those 4 days that they couldn't in 3 years anyway.


Remembering that the MP's have all been on "Summer Recess" and that there are very few sitting days anyway AND with such an important issue to solve, it does set a dangerous precedent.
Having said that, for everyone who is opposed to the idea, there is probably someone who is fairly happy that Boris has done this.
Ultimately, it just shows what an utter facking mess that Mrs May made of her deal.

One worrying aspect of Boris's actions was the smile that it brought to Arlene Fosters face and again, remembering what could happen in N.Ireland, especially around the border towns, we should all be just a little concerned.

Is Brexit worth sacrificing relative peace in N. Ireland - I dont think so
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:03 pm  
wotsupcas wrote:
The remain camp have tried to stop/delay brexit by any means possible over the past 3 years. Including Bercow using 400 year old laws going against centuries of protocol. Now Johnson has shut down parliament for 4 extra sitting days you would have thought the world was ending. Admitted its a sneaky/clever trick but you lot can't stand it when the boots on the other foot. What on earth are the MPs going to solve in those 4 days that they couldn't in 3 years anyway.


Personally I hope you get the hard Brexit that the majority of the leavers crave.

After all, that's what you all voted for isn't it, or maybe you're one of the Liam Fox gang, who said a new deal with the E.U. would be a piece of cake. Either way 17.4M people have facilitated a right wing coup in this country.

If Dominic Cummings, sorry Boris Johnson's no-deal crash out is successful, it will have been achieved by around 150 ultra-right wing Tory M.P.'s & all the pay-masters & political aides, what a result.

But if you think the "normal joe's" are going to get a slice of a post-brexit bonanza you're either naive or deluded.
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Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:08 am  
The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Personally I hope you get the hard Brexit that the majority of the leavers crave.

After all, that's what you all voted for isn't it, or maybe you're one of the Liam Fox gang, who said a new deal with the E.U. would be a piece of cake. Either way 17.4M people have facilitated a right wing coup in this country.

If Dominic Cummings, sorry Boris Johnson's no-deal crash out is successful, it will have been achieved by around 150 ultra-right wing Tory M.P.'s & all the pay-masters & political aides, what a result.

But if you think the "normal joe's" are going to get a slice of a post-brexit bonanza you're either naive or deluded.

There you go with the insults again. Why do you in the remain camp think you are so intellectually superior to brexiteers? . Where did I say I want a hard brexit. I want to leave with a GOOD deal. However just about the only thing May said in this whole fiasco that I agreed with is that no deal is better than the turd she tried to serve up to us. I happen to think that the threat of no deal will achieve that but I admit that time is now very pressing but at least the EU know we are serious, unlike with May.
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