Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:35 am  

Some realism is needed here - the same trucks with the same paperwork will pass through Dover on the 31st of October as do on the 1st November so what changes? There needs to be a duty calculation - this can be done from the paperwork, or are you suggesting they are going to empty every vehicle to calculate the duty?

There will be a rapid evolution of how goods flow from the EU to the UK and visa versa - the duty calculation will be done by freight clearance companies as is done for goods coming from outside of the EU - it could be argued it will create more jobs.

The idea that trucks will be queuing from Calais to Dunkirk & even Lille is fantasy

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:54 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Some realism is needed here - the same trucks with the same paperwork will pass through Dover on the 31st of October as do on the 1st November so what changes? There needs to be a duty calculation - this can be done from the paperwork, or are you suggesting they are going to empty every vehicle to calculate the duty?

There will be a rapid evolution of how goods flow from the EU to the UK and visa versa - the duty calculation will be done by freight clearance companies as is done for goods coming from outside of the EU - it could be argued it will create more jobs.

The idea that trucks will be queuing from Calais to Dunkirk & even Lille is fantasy

but the notion of queues is good for scaremongering!

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:57 am  

It’s a fact that border controls will be increased if it’s a no deal exit.

Lorries tend to go to a port and wait for a ferry even if they’re told not to. There are tens of thousands of lorry movements per day. If there are any hold ups it will mean queues forming within minutes. DfT don’t think there will be a problem. Other departments are less sure. Plans need to be made just in case. There’s only been one live exercise so far and that was a bit of a farce.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:17 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Some realism is needed here - the same trucks with the same paperwork will pass through Dover on the 31st of October as do on the 1st November so what changes? There needs to be a duty calculation - this can be done from the paperwork, or are you suggesting they are going to empty every vehicle to calculate the duty?

There will be a rapid evolution of how goods flow from the EU to the UK and visa versa - the duty calculation will be done by freight clearance companies as is done for goods coming from outside of the EU - it could be argued it will create more jobs.

The idea that trucks will be queuing from Calais to Dunkirk & even Lille is fantasy

IF there is no deal, which effectively tears up all trading agreements between the EU and the UK, there is no "right of passage" for anything or anyone in either direction.
Of course, you would expect any issues to be ironed out fairly quickly but, NOBODY actually knows what will and wont be permitted and even if it's just simply presenting additional paperwork, this WILL cause delays.
I'm sure that you already know this, even though you hope that there wont be an issue.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:28 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Some realism is needed here - the same trucks with the same paperwork will pass through Dover on the 31st of October as do on the 1st November so what changes? There needs to be a duty calculation - this can be done from the paperwork, or are you suggesting they are going to empty every vehicle to calculate the duty?

There will be a rapid evolution of how goods flow from the EU to the UK and visa versa - the duty calculation will be done by freight clearance companies as is done for goods coming from outside of the EU - it could be argued it will create more jobs.

The idea that trucks will be queuing from Calais to Dunkirk & even Lille is fantasy

Jesus wept you are just making stuff up, in a classic Brexiteer way. It's totally different "paperwork", getting stuff around the single market and in the customs union is totally different to bringing stuff in from outside. It's amazing how much uninformed rubbish people will say with amazing confidence.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:37 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Sorry but, you are wrong. There are definitely facilities at Dover for loading/unloading container freight. I'm not saying that it's anything remotely like Felixstowe and although we haven't imported container freight there, usually preferring Felixstowe, there is a facility there.https://www.dover-marina.com/cargo/ OK, I should have said hardly any container freight goes through Dover, certainly the big container ships don't and can't go there. About 9,000 containers pass through Dover annually compared to 4 million at Felixtowe so it's very marginal and the loss of Geest traffic will reduce that further.

wrencat1873 wrote: Sorry but, you are wrong. There are definitely facilities at Dover for loading/unloading container freight. I'm not saying that it's anything remotely like Felixstowe and although we haven't imported container freight there, usually preferring Felixstowe, there is a facility there.https://www.dover-marina.com/cargo/ OK, I should have said hardly any container freight goes through Dover, certainly the big container ships don't and can't go there. About 9,000 containers pass through Dover annually compared to 4 million at Felixtowe so it's very marginal and the loss of Geest traffic will reduce that further.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:44 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Jesus wept you are just making stuff up, in a classic Brexiteer way. It's totally different "paperwork", getting stuff around the single market and in the customs union is totally different to bringing stuff in from outside. It's amazing how much uninformed rubbish people will say with amazing confidence.

You are scaremongering classic "Project Fear remainer" - what do you honestly think is going happen - nothing will move until all the paperwork is changed/switched to the same paperwork as is used for non-EU cargo i.e. months - stop making stuff up. Goods will move freely from day one disruption will be minimal because of the impact on the normal commercial infrastructure of any other situation.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:33 pm  

Things will be slower at RoRo ports if it's no deal, that’s a fact. There is simply no way it will be unchanged if it is no deal. How slower depends on a few different factors. Mitigation plans exist that are scaleable depending on the delay but the longer the delay the greater the impact on everything else.

RoRo ports affected are Dover, Grimsby and Immingham, London, Holyhead and Portsmouth.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You are scaremongering classic "Project Fear remainer" - what do you honestly think is going happen - nothing will move until all the paperwork is changed/switched to the same paperwork as is used for non-EU cargo i.e. months - stop making stuff up. Goods will move freely from day one disruption will be minimal because of the impact on the normal commercial infrastructure of any other situation.

OK Boris, we believe you
Could you perhaps tell us what will happen with any goods en route from the Far East that currently have a tariff of say 5%, which, if we drop onto WTO rules will change to 12/13%.
Although usually, you would purchase goods knowing what levy would be applied, the import duty is paid when the goods arrive in the UK, therefore will I suddenly ow HMRC a further 7/8%. Do you think they will let me off, because it wasn't my fault or, do you think these goods will be held until the new correct level of duty is paid.
The same will happen to goods from the EU, which is currently a "free trade" zone for it's members.
Common sense would suggest that both sides continue with the free trade agreement. However, no other country currently has such a deal, without any contribution to the EU and this wont be negotiated until the Withdrawal Agreement has been passed.
You call others "project fear" and yet "blind faith" is your only guide

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:59 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

OK, I should have said hardly any container freight goes through Dover, certainly the big container ships don't and can't go there. About 9,000 containers pass through Dover annually compared to 4 million at Felixtowe so it's very marginal and the loss of Geest traffic will reduce that further.

Jesus wept... So YOU were making stuff up to suit your agenda just like you accused Brexit supporters of doing?