Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 6:11 am  

solely about creating and manipulating a certain rhetoric about your opponent.

So why are a significant number of labour MP's not backing Jezza and haven't done since day one, long before his inadequacies became apparent to the public.

No economic plan, spend without concerns for the consequence
De militarising the UK
Stronger influence by unions...........

Non of the above are promoted by leading countries

Im not sure he helps himself by openly admitting to being a marxist, standing under a communist and pro Assad flags when speaking to an audience, wearing a black cap.....hardly the traits of a future states person on the world stage. Im not sure McDonald and Abbott help.

Stop looking for excuses the bloke just isn't a leader, he's a protester. Its university politics.

Morally he sounds OK talking about looking after the needy etc but he just doesn't have the skills or plan to deliver on that nor the right people around him

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 7:06 am  

wire-quin wrote:

No economic plan, spend without concerns for the consequence
De militarising the UK
Stronger influence by unions...........

Did you read the manifesto? Based on the above, I don't think you have.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 7:14 am  

Maybe its changed since the leak yesterday. Maybe the party realised what a load of nonsense it was.

On the BBC news just now, Corbyns thread for today is getting the 'I'm not a pacifist'!!! message out. Shambolic

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 7:18 am  

headhunter wrote:

If this manifesto was being delivered by a clean-cut, slick-talking, confident leader you would be praising it, as would everyone else and it would be a huge landslide victory for Labour. This election is a joke and, like the last US election, is concrete proof that winning an election is nothing to do with politics whatsoever, it's solely about creating and manipulating a certain rhetoric about your opponent.

I agree that, modern politics is just as much about presentation as content and in a media driven world, it will always be the case.
Unfortunately, the Labour grandee's just dont consider such things.

Labour, unfortunately have so little appeal to any aspirational families.
Yes, they want to protect the poorest in society and rightly so but, that is where their policies stop and with all the items on the wish list (Manifesto), where is the money going to come from.
They say that it has been costed but, they dont make any allowance for how people and businesses will react to their proposals, which would impact very heavily on their tax receipts.

If you propose to tax businesses or people more heavily, they will usually looks at ways to reduce their tax burden.
This could have the effect of prompting some businesses to invest in capital, which could be a good thing but, its more likely that they will find other ways to "lose" a chunk of their profit.
Small businesses will put "excess" profits into pension funds or, look at ways that they finance property etc.
They certainly wont just roll over and give an extra "wedge" to the chancellor.
We have already seen how "successful" the largest organisations are in not paying tax.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 8:04 am  

wire-quin wrote:

Maybe its changed since the leak yesterday. Maybe the party realised what a load of nonsense it was.

On the BBC news just now, Corbyns thread for today is getting the 'I'm not a pacifist'!!! message out. Shambolic

Well, he needs to get that message out because people like you still believe he would "de-militarise the UK" to quote your post a few up.

It's a funny old world we live in where a leader & party standing for fairness and equality is derided for doing so. Yeh, what an absolute baSt@rd he is, trying to make sure everyone is given similar opportunities regardless of wealth, sex, race etc.

As you've carefully read the draft manifesto, specifically what things do you disagree with Wire-Quin? And can you explain why you disagree.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 9:56 am  

It's a funny old world we live in where a leader & party standing for fairness and equality is derided for doing so. Yeh, what an absolute baSt@rd he is, trying to make sure everyone is given similar opportunities regardless of wealth, sex, race etc.

As you've carefully read the draft manifesto, specifically what things do you disagree with Wire-Quin? And can you explain why you disagree.

Let's start with raising taxes on high earners, raising corporation tax ....... There's 2 that will send you southern hating northerners into a spin

Wrencat sums it up here

wrencat wrote Labour, unfortunately have so little appeal to any aspirational families.
Yes, they want to protect the poorest in society and rightly so but, that is where their policies stop and with all the items on the wish list (Manifesto), where is the money going to come from.
They say that it has been costed but, they dont make any allowance for how people and businesses will react to their proposals, which would impact very heavily on their tax receipts.

We have to accept that we live in a world where we are not equal for many reasons.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 10:18 am  

wire-quin wrote:

Let's start with raising taxes on high earners, raising corporation tax ....... There's 2 that will send you southern hating northerners into a spin

Wrencat sums it up here

We have to accept that we live in a world where we are not equal for many reasons.

It's not about being equal, it's about having equal opportunity and a society that's as fair as it possibly can be. What a person does with that opportunity is down to them of course, but a person should not be hindered because of what they are and closing that gap can only be a good thing surely?

I'll refrain from making any remarks like you've done (like "Southern Hating Northerners"), as that doesn't really achieve anything, but yes, raising tax for higher earners and raising corporation tax... My thoughts on that are since the recession and the policy of austerity and cut backs, it's the average person that has ultimately footed the bill and suffered the most because of it, whilst the high-earning minority have continued to flourish in that time. I agree with the policy of getting the rich to pay their fair share, and putting the money back into vital services that are struggling.

Why do you disagree with it? Do you not think that certain services need better funding, and if you agree, where else should the funds come from? Will you personally be worse off financially under Labour's policy? They're genuine questions to try and understand your position on it.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 10:40 am  

The top 10 % of earners contribute something like 50 % of the taxes and still Corbyn wants more. Its just headline grabbing stuff.

We have a tax system that rises as you go through certain thresholds, why does it need to be raised again. Higher earners pay both a higher % and higher actuals so why more?? We can't and shouldn't all earn the same which ultimately is what happens(ish). Forget the 0.1% of High earners such as CEOs of big companies and owners of successful companies. Why do we need to continuously thrash those who have achieved.

His hatred of successful individuals and business is bizarre if not worrying. These are the people and organisations that create employment for the rest of us. Don't chase them away because of bitterness

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 10:55 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

According to the Governor of the bank of England, our strong and stable economy is going to be squeezed over the next 12 months.
Higher inflation plus interest rate increases are going to leave us all a little worse off and then the unknown effects of Brexit will come into play and hi didn't want to commit himself as to which way things would go.

So he said growth would drop from 2% to 1.9%. Inflation will be caused by exchange rate differences if the currency settles down then the inflation differential i.e. 2.7% to 2% wage inflation will be reduced.

Hardly armageddon.

Re: General Election 8th June : Fri May 12, 2017 10:58 am  

wire-quin wrote:

The top 10 % of earners contribute something like 50 % of the taxes and still Corbyn wants more. Its just headline grabbing stuff.

We have a tax system that rises as you go through certain thresholds, why does it need to be raised again. Higher earners pay both a higher % and higher actuals so why more?? We can't and shouldn't all earn the same which ultimately is what happens(ish). Forget the 0.1% of High earners such as CEOs of big companies and owners of successful companies. Why do we need to continuously thrash those who have achieved.

His hatred of successful individuals and business is bizarre if not worrying. These are the people and organisations that create employment for the rest of us. Don't chase them away because of bitterness

In a similar way that big business and entrepreneurs create jobs, they're also provided a skilled, healthy, educated workforce to utilise to be able to do it. Without one, the other will struggle to flourish and visa-versa.

Why should they pay more... because they can afford to pay more. There's no "bitterness" or "hatred", that's just you throwing in sensationalist remarks again.

There are key services that are massively underfunded in the country, how do you propose the funds are raised in order to fund them properly? or wouldn't you?