Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:09 am  

Him wrote:

Anybody on the Left should bloody well support him or you'll let the maniacal, looneys of the US Right in to power.

To dismiss the healthcare reforms he managed to get through is to fundamentally misunderstand US politics.

As for Syria, what do you think the US should do?
There's only a few options -
1. Do nothing
2. Sanctions
3. No fly zone
4. Arm certain rebel groups
5. Air bombardment
6. Invasion

Which one is best?

*1 or *2 are the only viable options. There were enough weapons, including man pac surface to air missiles looted from Libyan arms dumps to keep anyone with an interest in this particular bout of Middle East madness happily engaged for years. We have no need, apart from the obvious provision of medical aid, food , shelter etc to get involved.

Sarah Palin made what was possibly her only intelligent comment so far in politics. "Let Allah sort it out" I heartily concur.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:23 pm  

Presumably Palin would be less keen on allowing Allah to sort out his followers on US soil that are intent on domestic terrorism?

If the American people have one thing they can truly be grateful for, it's that she never got as much of a sniff of any real international influence.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:34 pm  

Mintball wrote:

The West getting involved in Persia, as was, created a whole set of problems. Letting Israel get away with its behaviour has also caused problems.

Entirely agree.

Could the precedent set by 'The West' in response to other internally conflicted countries be a reason that many countries find themselves in conflict with the hope that 'The West' will barge in and solve their power struggles?

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:37 pm  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

...
Sarah Palin made what was possibly her only intelligent comment so far in politics. "Let Allah sort it out" I heartily concur.

Intelligent?
Sounds more like an dimwittedly xenophobic dismissal of a serious situation to me.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:01 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Intelligent?
Sounds more like an dimwittedly xenophobic dismissal of a serious situation to me.

She can still see Russia from Alaska though.

[DaveO]

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:21 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

Agreed.

The best way to do war, throughout the ages, has been to attack with minimal possible risk to your own side.

Drones are just a natural evolution of this. And, I don't really understand the 'ethics' of a fair fight when it is a life or death situation.

Why risk 30/40/50 men when you can hit something from a platform that sits many thousand feet in the air and is virtually undetectable to those who you are setting out to target.

Wasn't the point being made that if you can go to war without risk to your own people you will be more likely to do so? It's not about fairness as such but about what may tempt you to act and you could argue the ability to act with impunity (i.e. zero chance of casualties on your own side) is likely to make you a bit gung-ho. Shoot first think later sort of thing whereas having to risk pilots and a potential public backlash at high losses back home might make you a bit more considerate.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:29 pm  

The Pentagon and Ministry of Defence have artfully ensured that public debate on the issue of drones is framed purely within tactical or economic horizons rather than political or moral.

Whilst I appreciate that a drone system costs significantly less than a front line jet fighter - is this really a more important question than whether the US should be able to ignore the rights of sovereign nations (with whom no state of war exists) and not only enter but garrison their airspace at will?

Similarly, I can see the benefits of replacing humans with machines - in certain circumstances - with respect to the problems posed by stress, fatigue etc. But it's utterly degenerate to prioritise this issue above the question of whether it is acceptable to use drones as part of a targeted extra-judicial assassination programme (against not just foreign nationals but US citizens) whose methods, motives and judgements are - like almost all the United States' "Black Programmes" - effectively beyond house oversight.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:50 am  

Obama is oratorially excellent, I have heard a number of outstanding speeches, but actions speak louder than words.
American citizens living in poverty have risen under his administration!
Simplistic?
But sadly a truth.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:00 am  

Mugwump wrote:

The Pentagon and Ministry of Defence have artfully ensured that public debate on the issue of drones is framed purely within tactical or economic horizons rather than political or moral.

Whilst I appreciate that a drone system costs significantly less than a front line jet fighter - is this really a more important question than whether the US should be able to ignore the rights of sovereign nations (with whom no state of war exists) and not only enter but garrison their airspace at will?

Similarly, I can see the benefits of replacing humans with machines - in certain circumstances - with respect to the problems posed by stress, fatigue etc. But it's utterly degenerate to prioritise this issue above the question of whether it is acceptable to use drones as part of a targeted extra-judicial assassination programme (against not just foreign nationals but US citizens) whose methods, motives and judgements are - like almost all the United States' "Black Programmes" - effectively beyond house oversight.

Well said.
To me there's not a huge amount of difference between the killings of innocents by terrorists in the UK and what the US does with drones.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:05 am  

The disgrace that is Guantanamo Bay looks like it's moving to a slow resolvement, at long last, after the Presidents early promises. Better late than never? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/obama-to-name-d-c-lawyer-to-lead-guantanamo-bay-closure/

The disgrace that is Guantanamo Bay looks like it's moving to a slow resolvement, at long last, after the Presidents early promises. Better late than never? http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/obama-to-name-d-c-lawyer-to-lead-guantanamo-bay-closure/