Re: Wizened old socialists : Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:28 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

If you dont vote, then you cant be bothered about what comes next.
It should be compulsory to go and vote, even it you spoil your ballot paper.

People have lost their lives trying to protect our freedoms and yet some cant even get off their booty to vote

The Tories won the election and more people voted to leave the EU, why don't you accept that?

Re: Wizened old socialists : Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:52 pm  

happyjack wrote:

The Tories won the election and more people voted to leave the EU, why don't you accept that?

I have no choice other than to accept it.

However, there are still plenty of issues to be resolved on Brexit, not least the situation in N. Ireland, part of the UK that was literally thrown under the wheels of the Brexit bus, despite endless promises to the contrary by both Farage and Johnson.

The protocol in N. Ireland is not yet fully implemented and despite promises of a smooth transition and some kind of miracle technological solution, which still remains an idea in Michael Gove's head, my opinion (something which we are all free to express on an open forum) is that there is one hell of a schmidt storm to come, especially with Arlene Foster gone and a new, more radical, leader in her place.

Do you think that people should remain silent and be accepting of something that they feel is wrong or should they voice their opinion ?

For the record, so far Brexit has cost my business several £1000's, never mind the effects of covid) and whilst we adapt and change with the situation and remain successful, it was so bloody unnecessary (in my humble opinion).
There may be an upside at some point but, it certainly isn't evident yet, albeit, we are just a few months in to the new world.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:37 pm  

happyjack wrote:

The Tories won the election and more people voted to leave the EU, why don't you accept that?

Why are so many of the people who "won" and have so ruthlessly implemented everything they wanted so perpetually furious?

Moreover why are they so insecure that they can't cope with other people challenging their beliefs?

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:14 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Are you upset because telling lies has become Tory policy these days

Any thoughts on weapons of mass destruction? Step forward and take a bow ,Blair and Campbell. I seem to remember they were something to do with the Labour Party.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:35 am  

Backwoodsman wrote:

Any thoughts on weapons of mass destruction? Step forward and take a bow ,Blair and Campbell. I seem to remember they were something to do with the Labour Party.

No argument there. Although, in mitigation, it's hard to say no, when there is severe pressure from America.
Blair has become a pariah to many Labour supporters because of his actions on this issue supporters and rightly so.

Do you think that the Tories, would have acted any differently ??

However, the whole style of the Johnson premiership, is to bend the truth to breaking point or, just lie and then lie more to cover things when called out.

It's really strange that you find Blairs major failing as some kind of justification and validation for the new style of politics, a bit disappointing really.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:03 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It's really strange that you find Blairs major failing as some kind of justification and validation for the new style of politics, a bit disappointing really.

Quite. The logic appears to be that because someone long out of power did something unforgivably stupid and deceitful 20 years ago we shouldn't hold to account the people currently in power for, over and over again, lying and diverting money to themselves and their friends.

It's terribly twisted logic but I guess it helps people who continue to support the Tory party sleep at night.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Quite. The logic appears to be that because someone long out of power did something unforgivably stupid and deceitful 20 years ago we shouldn't hold to account the people currently in power for, over and over again, lying and diverting money to themselves and their friends.

It's terribly twisted logic but I guess it helps people who continue to support the Tory party sleep at night.

I don’t support the Tory party, chiefly because David Cameron cheerfully wiped out the dying embers of the Conservative party when he came into power. So there is no Tory party to support. In pointing out Blair’s WMD lies I am merely pointing out that political lies aren’t just confined to the Tory party. Almost forgotten Cleggs students tuition fees classic, obviously that didn’t hamper his career . Politicians don’t you just love them.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:10 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I don’t support the Tory party, chiefly because David Cameron cheerfully wiped out the dying embers of the Conservative party when he came into power. So there is no Tory party to support. In pointing out Blair’s WMD lies I am merely pointing out that political lies aren’t just confined to the Tory party. Almost forgotten Cleggs students tuition fees classic, obviously that didn’t hamper his career . Politicians don’t you just love them.

Both Cameron and Clegg lost their political careers for their failings and Blair is reviled in the history books for his. (Clegg, to be fair, was junior partner in a coalition which inevitably involved negotiating to secure only some of his party's priorities, although I agree they focussed on the wrong ones in the negotiations).

All faced electoral consequences for what they did wrong (Cameron jumped first rather than face up to his epic disasters).

I believe it's an overly cynical view to say all politicians are liars, most simply can't deliver what they genuinely want to.
Either way, it's irrelevant what leaders of the past have done if you refuse to demand high - or any - standards from the current leadership.

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:32 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Quite. The logic appears to be that because someone long out of power did something unforgivably stupid and deceitful 20 years ago we shouldn't hold to account the people currently in power for, over and over again, lying and diverting money to themselves and their friends.

It's terribly twisted logic but I guess it helps people who continue to support the Tory party sleep at night.

I personally think most politicians are a pretty poor group who will accept grace and favour from anyone. No doubt you would support repealing of union legislation if Corbyn had got in. What is the difference between Labour giving favours to their funders and the Tories giving favours to theirs?

Re: Wizened old socialists : Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

And yet, Wigan v Catalan this week is postponed, due to covid in the Wigan camp -

I love your optimism on vaccine busting variant's, somewhat premature, I think.

Glass half full rather than glass half empty - even this variant is showing to be far less damaging than the Kent variant - death's yesterday 13, ICU occupants c80 hospitalisations <1,000.

I ask again why is the rest of Europe prepared to open up to double vaccinated people yet the UK will not - are we more likely to get infected than the Germans or the French?

Secondly when do you think we should open up foreign travel?