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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:16 pm  
What RL team does Stanley support, I wonder?
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:32 pm  
bren2k wrote:
You would occupy the moral high ground more comfortably, if you hadn't referred to people who disagree with you as 'schizoids' so readily in the posts that precede this one.


Well what would you call somebody who has 3 x aliases whom constantly stalk's you around the forum.?

That's not normal behaviour.The word Schizoid does fit the behaviour of having 3 x accounts trying to instigate a x4 way conversation with 2 x people. Very strange.

The word insane doesn't fit my behavioural traits more like Billy 3 names,

See i wasn't referring to people who disagree'd with me i was referring to their behavioural abnormalities in them not knowing who they want be from minute to minute.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:01 pm  
Can we just pack it in, please?

Like, now.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:42 pm  
Chris28 wrote:
What RL team does Stanley support, I wonder?

He's an idiot so, my guess would be Hull FC.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:04 pm  
Chris28 wrote:
What RL team does Stanley support, I wonder?


Salford from what I've seen on other threads.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:14 pm  
Mugwump wrote:
Michael J. Wood KNOWS this for CERTAIN?


I don't suppose he does, no; but if certainty is disallowed from any discourse about conspiracy theories, that would silence 99% of their exponents in one fell swoop.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:36 pm  
bren2k wrote:
I don't suppose he does, no; but if certainty is disallowed from any discourse about conspiracy theories, that would silence 99% of their exponents in one fell swoop.


Well, I suppose the test of his sincerity is whether or not he also admitted that some explanations of conspiratorial events might just be based on ... you know ... evidence rather than mysterious psychological motivations.

If he did not then I really can't take him seriously. Or did you excise what should be the most obvious explanation?

I mean, you could just as easily apply such to all branches of human decision-making. Yet you don't hear people talking about "monological belief systems" in everyday conversation. Probably because people very often have good reasons for doing what they do.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:17 pm  
As stated, if the theory behind "monological belief systems" has any value then surely it must apply first to the much larger group of people who attack conspiratorial thinking.

I often wonder why people are so quick to attack accusations of conspiracy.

Before anything I should point out that a "conspiracy" is, by definition, two or more people planning to do something unlawful or harmful. Even without including controversial topics - conspiracy is ubiquitous in human society. It is also defined in law and people are regularly sent to prison for conspiring to defraud the government, insurance companies, banks etc. etc. No one would think twice about doubting whether government or big business or organised crime "conspires" to achieve some aim or another.

Do people attack conspiracy theories because they are more informed than the critics? In my experience the answer is a resounding "No!". Whenever I offer my opinions on the Kennedy assassination, 9/11 etc. I'm invariably inundated with criticism. But I've yet to meet a single critic who has bothered even to take the first logical step of reading the official explanation! Indeed, the only people I have met who meet this criterion ALL agree that conspiracy took place.

Now, I'm not suggesting that to be more informed on a subject automatically means one's opinion has more value. A person can make bad decisions based on good information. But don't you see where we are going here? In every other walk of life we usually attach greater significance to "informed opinion". You visit a specialist solely because he has invested years of his life studying medicine. You don't visit some backstreet quack with a medical certificate from some obscure Nigerian university because he probably has not.

Granted, there is no reliable means of judging whether someone is "qualified" to make reliable judgements on the question of conspiracy. But I think most rational people will agree that it's preferable to be informed than not.

So, tell me: who here is locked into a "monological belief system" and who is not?
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:33 pm  
You're dissembling.

The theory of monological belief system can of course apply to anything; in this instance, it was applied to the conspiracy theory sub-culture and specifically, those people who see a conspiracy as the logical explanation for any event that has any element of doubt attached. There is a body of research to suggest that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are pre-disposed to believe in another; not because there is any evidence linking them, but because of higher order beliefs supporting conspiracy theories in general. There is some interesting work out there showing that some respondents were so entrenched in their belief of conspiracies or cover-ups, that they actually believed contradictory conspiracy theories - that, for example, Princess Diana was both murdered, and faked her own death.

It's interesting stuff.
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Re: Terrorism in Paris again. : Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:39 pm  
Mugwump wrote:
As stated, if the theory behind "monological belief systems" has any value then surely it must apply first to the much larger group of people who attack conspiratorial thinking.

I often wonder why people are so quick to attack accusations of conspiracy.

Before anything I should point out that a "conspiracy" is, by definition, two or more people planning to do something unlawful or harmful. Even without including controversial topics - conspiracy is ubiquitous in human society. It is also defined in law and people are regularly sent to prison for conspiring to defraud the government, insurance companies, banks etc. etc. No one would think twice about doubting whether government or big business or organised crime "conspires" to achieve some aim or another.

Do people attack conspiracy theories because they are more informed than the critics? In my experience the answer is a resounding "No!". Whenever I offer my opinions on the Kennedy assassination, 9/11 etc. I'm invariably inundated with criticism. But I've yet to meet a single critic who has bothered even to take the first logical step of reading the official explanation! Indeed, the only people I have met who meet this criterion ALL agree that conspiracy took place.

Now, I'm not suggesting that to be more informed on a subject automatically means one's opinion has more value. A person can make bad decisions based on good information. But don't you see where we are going here? In every other walk of life we usually attach greater significance to "informed opinion". You visit a specialist solely because he has invested years of his life studying medicine. You don't visit some backstreet quack with a medical certificate from some obscure Nigerian university because he probably has not.

Granted, there is no reliable means of judging whether someone is "qualified" to make reliable judgements on the question of conspiracy. But I think most rational people will agree that it's preferable to be informed than not.

So, tell me: who here is locked into a "monological belief system" and who is not?

Our views are coloured by what our experiences have been ... therein lies possibly non-objectivity.
Both sides exhibit this.
Evidence or opinion, where does one start and the other begin?

Personally without wanting to suffer your wrath , and I did quite like the softer, more reasonable approach of this last post, I am not really sure why it matters so much to you.
I think, even on this side, we are all pretty much prepared to believe that you are right, that it is hard to believe the JFK findings.
But at the end of long delvings you can't tell me definitively who did it. That is no criticism, you have certainly tried.

But I can't for the life of me see how that maps to 9/11.
I am not alone. You are in a small minority that don't see two planes hitting two towers and two towers collapsing in a quite logical manner in keeping with the laws of physics and simple cause and effect.

So if you can also give us examples of how you have gone in on a conspiracy angle and then after consideration rejected that stance, then that would perhaps demonstrate a balanced view.

You don't need to write a novel every time in response.
You know plebs like me aren't worth it.
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