FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - US Shootings
::Off-topic discussion.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator25122No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 05 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Jul 17 01:3911th May 17 20:59LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Aleph Green

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:49 am  
At the risk of agreeing with some of the very people I can't stand - the presence of guns in a society is not a posteriori evidence of wide-scale gun violence. Canada has enough firearms in circulation to win half-a-dozen world wars and yet, despite its proximity to the States, doesn't suffer anywhere near the same number of casualties.

Americans have always feared the untrammeled violence of the state and widespread circulation of firearms was meant to discourage anyone from curtailing those freedoms many of their European ancestors didn't enjoy. I think the fear was and remains reasonable and so was the solution. That said, whilst prior to WWI citizen militias could probably hold their own against armies of the state, pitted against satellite imagery, Apache "Longbow" helicopters and Hellfire missiles it's doubtful the Minutemen could offer anything more than token resistance.

It's very difficult to argue for gun ownership in Britain without keyboards being tossed into the air in horror and mothers ushering their kids out of the room. Invariably the response is "Guns kill people, duh!" and before long one or more people are being labeled Nazis. If you are lucky enough to get beyond first base and point out that against the British state we have almost no means of defence should we need it the reply then is something along the lines of "We're not likely to". Given this country's long and bloody history in addition to the huge number of problems which have broken on us or are about to (the current economic malaise, the far greater one when this last debt bubble we've created implodes on us, global warming, peak oil, global shortages of water, food and other finite resources, overpopulation etc.) I'd say this is a naive assumption.

Why it is that there is almost complete unanimity on the question of guns in society is an interesting question. After all, alcohol has always been a far bigger killer than firearms in Britain yet you don't see 95% of people arguing to ban it. I think it's no-coincidence that the government and the media combined (in one of those rare moments when both sing exclusively from the same hymn sheet, which should be suspicious in itself) to hit guns when they were at their weakest post-Hungerford following decades when civil unrest was a major political issue (the miners' strike, Poll Tax etc.)

Returning to the US, I'd argue that it is the proliferation of guns within a fundamentally corrupt and unjust, militaristic and economically polarised nation deeply divided along lines of race, religion and class that leads to widespread gun violence.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 09 201212 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
20th May 16 14:5420th May 16 10:16LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:24 am  
Mugwump wrote:

It's very difficult to argue for gun ownership in Britain without keyboards being tossed into the air in horror and mothers ushering their kids out of the room. Invariably the response is "Guns kill people, duh!" and before long one or more people are being labeled Nazis. If you are lucky enough to get beyond first base and point out that against the British state we have almost no means of defence should we need it the reply then is something along the lines of "We're not likely to". Given this country's long and bloody history in addition to the huge number of problems which have broken on us or are about to (the current economic malaise, the far greater one when this last debt bubble we've created implodes on us, global warming, peak oil, global shortages of water, food and other finite resources, overpopulation etc.) I'd say this is a naive assumption.



The problem with a reasoned argument in favour of gun control is that ultimately the reasoned argument becomes meaningless when the gun licensing laws are made obsolete and they are on sale in Asda.

At that point every citizen who hasn't got a big enough cock wants the biggest gun that Asda stock that christmas whilst every citizen who can't be arsed working for a living but prefers robbing instead is also stood behind them in the checkout queue looking over their shoulder and wondering if they picked up enough ammunition or whether they should go back and get some grenades as well.

Its pointless telling those with small cocks, the criminal and the ones with brains that don't quite work the same way as the rest of us that the right to bear arms is purely for protection against an over-zealous state, should that ever happen, when that statement will whizz by fifty miles above their heads and you end up with the same situation here that they have in many areas of the US where YOU buy a gun because you want to shoot a burglar dead should you ever be visited by one, or the bloke down your street has got a gun and you know for a fact that he's a nut-job and you want to protect your family on the day when he finally flips.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member7174No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 28 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
25th Oct 19 17:0514th Nov 18 17:30LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:02 am  
christopher wrote:
The scary thing is I've just heard an American guy on the news saying that maybe an answer is to have teachers armed so they can protect themselves


The same point. Was put to a ex teacher who lives near the incident. The person asking this was a BBC news reporter.

So its not just those crazy Yanks.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner5594
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 13 200321 years332nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Oct 23 08:3723rd Aug 21 06:43LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
...Diagnosing SBD (Sporting Bipolar Disorder) since 2003...
Negs bringing down the tone of your forum? Keyboard Bell-endery tiresome? Embarrassed by some of your own fans?
Then you need...
TheButcher
I must be STOPPED!!
Vice Chairman of The Scarlet Turkey Clique
Grand Wizard Shill of Nibiru Prime & Dark Globe Champion
Chairman of 'The Neil Barker School for gifted Clowns'
"A Local Forum. For Local People"

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:55 am  
Mugwump wrote:
Returning to the US, I'd argue that it is the proliferation of guns within a fundamentally corrupt and unjust, militaristic and economically polarised nation deeply divided along lines of race, religion and class that leads to widespread gun violence.


I think that sentence sums it up nicely. Gun laws on there own wont do a great deal in a Nation that is fundamentally Paranoid.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Moderator12488No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 07 200718 years236th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Oct 23 16:277th Mar 23 15:21LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Durham
Signature
Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers

Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????
Moderator

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:56 am  
guess who wrote:
The same point. Was put to a ex teacher who lives near the incident. The person asking this was a BBC news reporter.

So its not just those crazy Yanks.

But it is a valid point. If all the Teachers were armed they could have taken out the Gunman.


Although if the gunman was a teacher then that would make it worse.

Now if all of the children had been armed and trained then they could have taken out the gunman and would also be able to take out any crazed teachers who pose a risk to them.

The problem with America is that not everyone has a gun. If all the unarmed were armed that problem would be solved. I do feel that they should put Gun training on the curriculum for all children aged over five and that it is the duty of all parents to buy their children a gun at the age of five as a type of coming of age present.

Maybe that is what the gun lobby should be pushing
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach519No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 21 200817 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
20th Dec 14 10:3920th Dec 14 10:39LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:29 am  
TheButcher wrote:
I think that sentence sums it up nicely. Gun laws on there own wont do a great deal in a Nation that is fundamentally Paranoid.


Nail....hammer....head.

The best you will ever get is a law restricting ownership to possibly one gun per household, and maybe a maximum amount of ammunition also.

I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon though.
Ajw71 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1978No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 23 200619 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th Dec 23 20:2714th Dec 19 14:13LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:45 am  
rumpelstiltskin wrote:
Nail....hammer....head.

The best you will ever get is a law restricting ownership to possibly one gun per household, and maybe a maximum amount of ammunition also.

I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon though.


If guns were instanly banned tomorrow, it would probably take 50-100 years before guns did not become readily available, because of the sheer amount of guns in that country.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member2155No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 01 200322 years318th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Oct 24 13:3312th Oct 24 18:48LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
The Land Of The Sand
Signature
Diablo1967 said ''A pub-landlord running a professional sporting outfit in the best league in the hemisphere? Laughable''

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:03 pm  
[quote=the usual mugwump diarrhoea.[/quote]

Yes, guns do kill people, but you still would need to justify why you would need and want to own a hand gun in the first place. The police don't want to be armed, and if we had referendum the outcome would be the same, the people of this country don't want guns in society. As for no defence against the state, so what, should I be having paranoid delusions that one morning I going to wake up and find myself under martial law?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 17 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
2nd May 24 20:2424th Oct 19 15:32LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
MACS0647-JD
Signature
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:17 pm  
Him wrote:
Yep. Although I seem to remember something similar happening here just after the 7/7 bombings. Every country has its weirdos and idiots, it's just America appears to have a larger proportion than most.


Whilst there's no disputing that they have a lot, they wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the list. If you substitute the emotive terms "weirdos and idiots", with "people who randomly murder large groups of strangers" then you'll agree there are more dangerous places in the world. Would you feel your kids were safer in Connecticut, Helmand, Kabul, Bogota, or the Gaza Strip?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 17 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
2nd May 24 20:2424th Oct 19 15:32LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
MACS0647-JD
Signature
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total

Re: US Shootings : Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:20 pm  
Durham Giant wrote:
But it is a valid point. If all the Teachers were armed they could have taken out the Gunman.


Although if the gunman was a teacher then that would make it worse.

Now if all of the children had been armed and trained then they could have taken out the gunman and would also be able to take out any crazed teachers who pose a risk to them.

The problem with America is that not everyone has a gun. If all the unarmed were armed that problem would be solved. I do feel that they should put Gun training on the curriculum for all children aged over five and that it is the duty of all parents to buy their children a gun at the age of five as a type of coming of age present.

Maybe that is what the gun lobby should be pushing


Can't disagree with a word of that. the only thing I would add is each child U-5 top becompulsorily accompanied by an armed guard paired up from the 5-11 age group. Ammunition vending machines on each corridor would be good too.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Sin Bin


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
Transfer Talk V5
The Biffs Ba
572
9m
2025 Kit
Maccbull_Big
38
14m
Rumours thread
FIL
2538
34m
2025 Recruitment
Ckt2487
265
39m
2025 Squad Discussion
dddooommm
56
50m
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
54m
Shareholder/Fans Forum
FIL
40
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63359
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40892
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Armavinit
4104
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Squad numbers 2025
phe13
69
1m
Doug Laughton
Once were Lo
15
1m
Hopes and Dreams for a New Season
WYSIWYG2
7
1m
Transfer Talk V5
The Biffs Ba
572
1m
2025 Squad Discussion
dddooommm
56
1m
Takeover
hull2524
23
3m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Theeaststand
58
4m
Pre-season
chapylad
8
8m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40892
27m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63359
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
NRL Expansion
Warrior Wing
6
TODAY
Pre-season
chapylad
8
TODAY
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
TODAY
Takeover
hull2524
23
TODAY
RIP Syd Hynes
Clearwing
6
TODAY
Small squad numbers
Chesterrhino
7
TODAY
Hopes and Dreams for a New Season
WYSIWYG2
7
TODAY
Open Trials
Torbreck
8
TODAY
Shareholder/Fans Forum
FIL
40
TODAY
Elliot Michella extends contract
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Christmas Party Night B Vue tonight cancelled
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Doug Laughton
Once were Lo
15
TODAY
Sports Personality of the Year
rubber ducki
17
TODAY
Forget-me-not Childrens hospice
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
All time academy produced Super league era side
rollin thund
5
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
4
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Huddersfield
5
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Captains Challenge for Televis..
383
England Women Las Vegas train-..
540
Opening Championship and Leagu..
717
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
2012
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
1110
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1761
England's Women Demolish The W..
1628
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1849
Operational Rules Tribunal â..
1575
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1805
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
2362
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2563
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2801
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
2352
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2600
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
Transfer Talk V5
The Biffs Ba
572
9m
2025 Kit
Maccbull_Big
38
14m
Rumours thread
FIL
2538
34m
2025 Recruitment
Ckt2487
265
39m
2025 Squad Discussion
dddooommm
56
50m
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
54m
Shareholder/Fans Forum
FIL
40
Recent
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63359
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40892
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Armavinit
4104
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Squad numbers 2025
phe13
69
1m
Doug Laughton
Once were Lo
15
1m
Hopes and Dreams for a New Season
WYSIWYG2
7
1m
Transfer Talk V5
The Biffs Ba
572
1m
2025 Squad Discussion
dddooommm
56
1m
Takeover
hull2524
23
3m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Theeaststand
58
4m
Pre-season
chapylad
8
8m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40892
27m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63359
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
NRL Expansion
Warrior Wing
6
TODAY
Pre-season
chapylad
8
TODAY
Josh Thewlis extents deal
matt_wire
2
TODAY
Takeover
hull2524
23
TODAY
RIP Syd Hynes
Clearwing
6
TODAY
Small squad numbers
Chesterrhino
7
TODAY
Hopes and Dreams for a New Season
WYSIWYG2
7
TODAY
Open Trials
Torbreck
8
TODAY
Shareholder/Fans Forum
FIL
40
TODAY
Elliot Michella extends contract
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Christmas Party Night B Vue tonight cancelled
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Doug Laughton
Once were Lo
15
TODAY
Sports Personality of the Year
rubber ducki
17
TODAY
Forget-me-not Childrens hospice
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
All time academy produced Super league era side
rollin thund
5
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
4
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Huddersfield
5
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Captains Challenge for Televis..
383
England Women Las Vegas train-..
540
Opening Championship and Leagu..
717
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
2012
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
1110
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1761
England's Women Demolish The W..
1628
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1849
Operational Rules Tribunal â..
1575
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1805
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
2362
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2563
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2801
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
2352
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2600


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!