Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:54 am  

Saddened! wrote:

I heard an interesting interview on the radio today, but didn't catch who it was, sounded like an elderly South African. He said Mandela was a great man. A fascinating man whose greatest achievement was not the changes he helped bring to South Africa, but the changes he made to himself. He said the young Mandela was reactionary, angry and often intolerant to opinions of others and a difficult and awkward man, particularly in his relationships with his own family.

Now you've said that. I'm wondering now if it is beyond the realms of possibility that in this statement is more of a self-reflection of himself.

“No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.”

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:36 am  

Mintball wrote:

Oh, I have a pretty high regard for both of them, for precisely that reason.

I similarly have a high regard for John Major for taking what was an equally courageous step, politically, to move away from the idea of seeing the Northern Ireland situation as only something that could be 'won' by military force, and moving towards negotiation.

In the case of Adams and Martin, they would quite possibly have been murdered if things hadn't gone as they have. In Major's case, it could have been political suicide – there was much opinion against it – but it should be considered a very good legacy.

In the South African situation, one should also remember that de Klerk – no matter how he'd started out – made the right decisions to follow the right, very different path.

High regard for those pieces of scum, you really do take the biscuit. The IRA lost, they had nowhere to go.. Do we have a united ireland, , no and we're not going to. Adams and McGuiness haven't changed, they're just drunk on power.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:33 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

I have distant family in SA.

The country is often portrayed as some sort of utopia for freedom and fairness.

As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, it used to be whites shafting blacks, now it is blacks shafting blacks. It could well go to rat-poop and end up like Zimbabwe. Which would be a shame.

Looks like I'm moving here (I'm in joburg now for a four day orientation) next year for a couple of years, so - update to follow!

Everyone pretty sad here in SA. No protests or demos or anything like that though.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:45 am  

Richie wrote:

Looks like I'm moving here (I'm in joburg now for a four day orientation) next year for a couple of years, so - update to follow!

Everyone pretty sad here in SA. No protests or demos or anything like that though.

Good luck. A lad I worked with went back home to SA for good a few years ago. Within a few months he came back here.

You only need to look at the lovely houses you can get so cheap there to realise what most people's long term view is. They are cheaper than in alot of poorer African countries.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:12 am  

There is something predictable and slightly nauseous as World leaders fall over each other in their haste to out eulogise each other, with Obama being a prime example. All apparently signed up to the mantra that it doesn't matter where you start from, but where you end up. And I wonder who will be the first to mention that for many Politicians, for many years Mandella as head of the armed wing of the ANC, was viewed as a terrorist, whose freedom fighters committed atrocities in their pursuit of their political goals.

Don't get me wrong. I firmly believe if you feel within yourself that any act in pursuit of what you believe in is justified.....the ends justifies the means.....is ok, then you must accept the consequences of that mindset, and I'm sure Mandella, as a young man was prepared to give his life in the pursuit of his goals.

That he emerged from that lengthy incarceration unbroken, and willingly took the hand of his oppressors, shows that he had evolved into a better human being and is a great example of the strength of the human spirit. As dear departed Kirkstallers may have said.....he displayed perfectly, the very best of the Christian Spirit.

Personally, I tend towards the Rod Liddle point of view. Nice guy....outstanding human being.....but is there really any need for the wall to wall media coverage?

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:49 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Personally, I tend towards the Rod Liddle point of view. Nice guy....outstanding human being.....but is there really any need for the wall to wall media coverage?

If it gets a complete shitbag like Liddle animated, then I'd encourage it even more

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:17 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

There is something predictable and slightly nauseous as World leaders fall over each other in their haste to out eulogise each other

Mention nothing of the Diana-esque outpouring of 'grief', both in the media and on social networks.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to rock up outside the SA Embassy in London in floods of tears to leave flowers.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:06 pm  

Oh i got plenty of pelters on Facebook yesterday for this:

Unless you're South African or were somehow affected by the Apartheid... Shut.the F**k.up...

Thanks

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:09 pm  

World of Redboy wrote:

High regard for those pieces of scum, you really do take the biscuit. The IRA lost, they had nowhere to go.. Do we have a united ireland, , no and we're not going to. Adams and McGuiness haven't changed, they're just drunk on power.

Yet we don't have the discrimination that existed on the basis of religion.

And I'll have a custard cream, thank you.

Re: MANDELA DEAD : Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:13 pm  

I remember Nelson Mandela cutting that woman down to size with a few well chosen words when she tried to cosy up to him.
A great thinker , orator and freedom fighter with compassion for all, something that woman would struggle to even start to comprehend.