Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:33 pm  

dr_feelgood wrote: And now a Tory think tank has come up with the idea of only paying benefits for the first two children. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12 ... ref=topbar This coming from the same guy who claimed on expenses to heat his stables. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11 ... 50907.html This bloke is another nasty, snout-in-the-trough piece of work. I'm curious as to what he would 'think' a family should do if, for argument's sake, they have triplets while not claiming benefits and then later need to claim benefits.

dr_feelgood wrote: And now a Tory think tank has come up with the idea of only paying benefits for the first two children. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12 ... ref=topbar This coming from the same guy who claimed on expenses to heat his stables. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11 ... 50907.html This bloke is another nasty, snout-in-the-trough piece of work. I'm curious as to what he would 'think' a family should do if, for argument's sake, they have triplets while not claiming benefits and then later need to claim benefits.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:40 pm  

We need to find a way to reverse the stigmatisation of accepting the benefits of a welfare state, especially as the vast majority of the population are indeed recipients of that state.

I was born four years after the creation of the welfare state. Born in a dedicated maternity hospital with all the available care in reach if required, instead of born in my mother's bed iwth the only "experienced" care coming "Betty down the street" because my mam & dad couldn't afford to pay a doctor's and/or midwife's bill.

I benefited from free (at the point of delivery), healthcare and schooling. My mother never received any family allowance for me because it was only paid for second and subsequent children. I left school at sixteen and from the following April paid income tax and NI without grumble or complaint because I knew that the state would use my contributions to look after me in my dotage. Unfortunately now I'm reaching pensionable age, I find that the state has reneged on that promise, I'll need to keep on working just to simply subsist. All my contributions to basic NI, SERPS, various company and private schemes will amount to around 4/5ths of buggerall.

The only thing austerity has brought is more misery for the less well-off in order to create ever more wealth for those who didn't need the money anyway. A determined, as opposed to the half-arsed window dressing, exercise in tackling tax avoidance and evasion would result in no need for austerity. Concentrating on tackling "benefit fraud" while basically ignoring tax evasion and avoidance is peverse but just about sums up what the tories are, always have been and always will be about.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:46 pm  

It will be 'worse' under Labour. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... es-welfare The welfare state has ballooned to a ridiculous size over the last decade. It's much harder to shrink it than expand it. Thankfully all major parties recognised that it needs to be smaller.

It will be 'worse' under Labour. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... es-welfare The welfare state has ballooned to a ridiculous size over the last decade. It's much harder to shrink it than expand it. Thankfully all major parties recognised that it needs to be smaller.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:57 pm  

Mintball wrote: This bloke is another nasty, snout-in-the-trough piece of work. I'm curious as to what he would 'think' a family should do if, for argument's sake, they have triplets while not claiming benefits and then later need to claim benefits. Maybe it's a result of Cameron's recent visit to China and he was so impressed with China's "one child policy"? Interesting to note that MPs are allowed to claim up to £2,425 per dependent child simply for visiting. Zahawi's They Work for You page

Mintball wrote: This bloke is another nasty, snout-in-the-trough piece of work. I'm curious as to what he would 'think' a family should do if, for argument's sake, they have triplets while not claiming benefits and then later need to claim benefits. Maybe it's a result of Cameron's recent visit to China and he was so impressed with China's "one child policy"? Interesting to note that MPs are allowed to claim up to £2,425 per dependent child simply for visiting. Zahawi's They Work for You page

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:28 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Concentrating on tackling "benefit fraud" while basically ignoring tax evasion and avoidance is peverse but just about sums up what the tories are, always have been and always will be about.

You mean apart from the tax agreement thing with Switzerland that the coalition started in January this year? Still, it never quite brought in the £3bn projected, just less than £1bn I think the figures show. Which is still £1bn more than anyone thought would be recouped. Perhaps those on benefits are squirreling away their hard earned in Geneva.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:54 pm  

The Lichrenstein Disclosure Facility has generated several times the £1 billion originally forecast. To be fair to the coalition they have done more to counter tax evasion than Labour did.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:44 pm  

Dally wrote:

The Lichrenstein Disclosure Facility has generated several times the £1 billion originally forecast. To be fair to the coalition they have done more to counter tax evasion than Labour did.

This is true but the new IT system that identifies irregularities in tax payments and/or earnings declared is based on a "best guess" and throws up some nightmare stories - my brother for instance has had the bailiffs calling at his house on several occasions chasing an imaginary tax boll of £2000, yes HMRC have sold a debt of £2000 to a private collection agency who get given short shrift each time they call because he does not owe the money at all, but HMRC's new software had guestimated that he perhaps does.

In August after two years of protracted phone calls and chasing nameless faceless individuals around the country to try and get an answer he presented himself at our local tax office at a pre-arranged appointment to sort it all out, after twenty minutes discussion he was told that his appointment was concluded, not that they had concluded the matter, just that they were only allowed to discuss individuals matters for twenty minutes - he refused to leave until they had reached an agreement.

Eventually after a manager got involved they finally got to the bottom of the £2000 tax bill - they thought he was still a company director even though they had been informed five years ago that he wasn't and had been filling in the correct employee (company car) assessments ever since - his total tax liability to them was £56.

I don't know how he kept his temper in there but he insisted that they got the payments section on the phone there and then and he paid the £56 on a debit card and bade them a good day - I have no doubt whatsoever that there are probably tens of thousands like him that owe nothing like the amounts that their fabulous new computer software guestimates - if they feed it shoite then thats what it spits out.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:55 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote:

Of course there is a long way to go and nobody is pretending, least of all Osborne, that the return of growth has solved Britain’s problems at a stroke. But as has been reported, a Rubicon has been crossed and those who said austerity would inflict a permanent deep freeze on the economy have indeed been proved wrong, as they have in previous economic recovery in this country. It is not just a political victory but “the intellectual debate has been settled in favour of the minority who stated that the economy could grow through a period of necessary action to cut a budget deficit that had ballooned alarmingly” as David Smith put it.

You may recall the economy dropped by 7.2% in 2008-9 before this government started their task.

Normally growth of 1.4% would be a disappointment and the OBR forecast of 2.4% for year is at best just average, but we are in unusual times and our quarterly growth of 0.8% in the third quarter was good enough to take Britain to the top of the G7 league for a few hours until America revised theirs upwards to 0.9%.

So scoff all you like but this is some achievement given that this government has endured a greater handicap than other economies with factors peculiar to Britain eg: 1. With one of the largest financial sectors in the world we were hit harder than most when this collapsed. And 2. An important part of our economy has been the North Sea contribution which again has seen a major decline in revenues over the same period. Add to this our over dependence on Europe for our exports meant we suffered when the Euro crisis led to a long and deep European recession. The eurozone woes, rather than Osborne's austerity were one reason why our recovery took longer than expected. Without these three handicaps it is likely that the Osborne/Cameron policies would have born fruit much earlier.

Lets be fair here UK GDP grew at 2.4% in the first year following the recession (Q3 2009 till Q3 2010) which was the year in the run up to the Coalition taking office.

It does amuse me how you get Tories now desperate to talk up these figures accusing Labour and left wing commentators of being unhappy that the economy has returned to growth and talking down the economy etc....can you remember the rhetoric we had from the Tories in the run up to the election when the economy was growing at what is more or less a normal long term trend rate.

The only reason this slow return to growth looks good is because the economy stagnated for the first 2.5 years under the Coalition so it is a recovery compared to that but not compared to the last year under Labour.

The reason Gordon Brown's line in the election campaign was "don't let the Tories threaten the recovery" was exactly because the UK economy was recovering. It went in to stagnation after the Coalition took over they just made sure they blamed Labour for it....

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:25 pm  

dr_feelgood wrote: And now a Tory think tank has come up with the idea of only paying benefits for the first two children. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12 ... ref=topbar This coming from the same guy who claimed on expenses to heat his stables. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11 ... 50907.html Tbh i dont know why he doesn't just come out and say we'll kill every child born after the first two

dr_feelgood wrote: And now a Tory think tank has come up with the idea of only paying benefits for the first two children. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12 ... ref=topbar This coming from the same guy who claimed on expenses to heat his stables. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11 ... 50907.html Tbh i dont know why he doesn't just come out and say we'll kill every child born after the first two

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:36 pm  

To be fair, if you can't afford to keep three or more kids, then why should the welfare state be expected to do it for you??

I'd love a Ferrari, but I can't afford it, so I don't buy myself one - The same thing should apply to having children.

Of course, there should be safeguards for people having triplets, or twins during a second pregnancy, but for people who insist on having children despite already struggling with what they already have, then there has to be some sort of deterrent put in place.