Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:41 am  

dubairl wrote:

my parents ...

And they were educated privately, were they, and only by other teachers who were educated privately, etc etc etc?

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:50 am  

dubairl wrote:

So have i stopped paying council tax ...

Since you're not in the UK ...

Do you know what local taxes pay for and what national taxes pay for? In the UK, that is.

dubairl wrote:

... Am i saying that you just stop paying taxes? No. What i am saying is you should have tax breaks if you provide for your self with Private educations and health insurance...

Yes. You want to be rewarded for being better off than other people.

dubairl wrote:

... why should i expect another parent to pay for my kids? ...

More than one poster here has explained this to you.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:53 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

I suspect that its worked for you and your parents because you are both able to earn significantly more than what is considered to be the average wage here in the UK (£26,664 - 2013, ONS) because even on that average times two full time earners in the family you'd be well short of the proposal to charge for education at £80,000.

The reality is that anyone earning an average wage in the UK (and there are many on less than £12k), you will not earn sufficient to pay for health insurance or education, or to put anything aside for a pension.

National Insurance is what it suggests, it the insurance scheme that (originally) pays for your healthcare and pension and none of us should ever lose sight of that fact - we are in effect already doing what you suggest and have been since 1948.

Right now i earn nowhere near enough to pay for a child so i am working towards it and in 3 years hopefully i will be able to afford it. I believe my brothers education for high school (most expensive years) was around 27,000 pounds so i know not everybody could afford that (like me) and they are the people who will not receive the tax breaks but in effect they are paying for the children's education but at a subsidize rate. Personally i think its a fair system people pay for what they can afford.

same with the national insurance i am not saying people who have health insurance shouldn't pay it because nobody knows what the future has in hold for them but for the time you have health insurance you should pay a lower rate as you don't take from that system.

I guess my way of looking at is purchasing i guess. I wouldn't buy a house with somebody and pay 100k whilst they only pay 50k but we receive 50% equity each.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:31 am  

dubairl wrote:

same with the national insurance i am not saying people who have health insurance shouldn't pay it because nobody knows what the future has in hold for them but for the time you have health insurance you should pay a lower rate as you don't take from that system.

I guess my way of looking at is purchasing i guess. I wouldn't buy a house with somebody and pay 100k whilst they only pay 50k but we receive 50% equity each.

You'll find that in the UK even if you have private health insurance (and few pay for it themselves as it is ridiculously high, my last quote was £99 per month just to cover myself), then you will still use the NHS facilities if you are ill.

For instance you will still be assigned to an NHS GP who will be your first port of call if you are ill, if required he will then refer you and its at that point that you can choose your private provider.

For instance, if you are hit by a bus this afternoon then no private provider will send a paramedic or ambulance to scrape you out from under its wheels for they don't exist, its not a profitable service for them to provide - the NHS would attend to you and only when you are well enough would you be moved to your private provider.

Or as a final for instance if you are in the situation that a friend of mine was and you discover that unfortunately you have a brain tumour then you would be referred to the top practitioner in the city who works in one of our NHS hospitals and when you mention that you have BUPA cover he will inform you that he has a clinic at BUPA once a week and that he can either see you now or you can wait until Friday and he'll see you there - my friend chose to see him there and then, as you would if you had a brain tumour.

Truth is that on many occasions the private health providers leach off the NHS.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:57 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

You'll find that in the UK even if you have private health insurance (and few pay for it themselves as it is ridiculously high, my last quote was £99 per month just to cover myself), then you will still use the NHS facilities if you are ill.

For instance you will still be assigned to an NHS GP who will be your first port of call if you are ill, if required he will then refer you and its at that point that you can choose your private provider.

For instance, if you are hit by a bus this afternoon then no private provider will send a paramedic or ambulance to scrape you out from under its wheels for they don't exist, its not a profitable service for them to provide - the NHS would attend to you and only when you are well enough would you be moved to your private provider.

Or as a final for instance if you are in the situation that a friend of mine was and you discover that unfortunately you have a brain tumour then you would be referred to the top practitioner in the city who works in one of our NHS hospitals and when you mention that you have BUPA cover he will inform you that he has a clinic at BUPA once a week and that he can either see you now or you can wait until Friday and he'll see you there - my friend chose to see him there and then, as you would if you had a brain tumour.

Truth is that on many occasions the private health providers leach off the NHS.

Yeah you are right about the Private health and like i said the more i think about it the more I think you should have to make a contribution but you should also be rewarded if you take out private health insurance or work for a company that will provide it. The last time i remember going to the doctors in the uk was for the simple reason of being referred to the private hospital. Im not saying all my opinions are bulletproof or even thought out to be put in practice because i know they never will be, but my own self beliefs are you shouldn't rely on others if you can provide it for yourself.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:25 am  

dubairl wrote:

Yeah you are right about the Private health and like i said the more i think about it the more I think you should have to make a contribution but you should also be rewarded if you take out private health insurance or work for a company that will provide it. The last time i remember going to the doctors in the uk was for the simple reason of being referred to the private hospital. Im not saying all my opinions are bulletproof or even thought out to be put in practice because i know they never will be, but my own self beliefs are you shouldn't rely on others if you can provide it for yourself.

My father lived in Spain for a while and at that time (not sure now) they had a two tier system, the state provision was very basic hospital facilities and his Spanish friends assured him that no-one in employment would ever use them, they all had insurance - he had cause to use the private clinic towards the end of his life and paid for it himself and found it to be on par with the private facilities here.

I think the UK has the balance correct where our state provisions are often (despite what politicians tell you) world leaders in their field and the private insurers will often use NHS facilities simply because the private hospitals will offer better hotel facilities but often not better medical care, indeed as in my example, its often NHS consultants operating one day a week in the private hospitals - a friend of mine who is an anesthetist does the same.

That is only possible of course by ALL of us contributing and not opting out.

[DaveO]

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:31 am  

dubairl wrote:

i always believe that you should be shown what percent of your many taxations goes towards your children's schooling and it should be up to you if you pay it or put them through private education.

Well that won't work.

I think all education spending represents 12% of UK government expenditure. Therefore 12% of the tax you pay would go toward this spending. Is 12% of your income tax enough to fund a private education?

I earn a high salary and 12% of the tax I pay in a year would not come close to funding a term let alone a year of private schooling.

And of course if I was given this rather small sum of money as a tax rebate to put toward school fees it would mean less in the pot for those who would have to rely on state education, which is the vast majority.

That is the good thing about progressive taxation. It makes money available to provide services such as education the wider population could not afford that we all benefit from. In this case an educated population.

If you want your contribution back I suggest you work out just how much that would be and then consider if receiving that small amount of money would be a morally acceptable position to take given the impact this would have if we all took that money out of the pot.

Will you be telling us next you want the proportion of tax you pay to the NHS back because so far in your life you have not needed the services of a heart surgeon for example and don't see why you should pay anything towards the cost of those who do?

[DaveO]

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:37 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Truth is that on many occasions the private health providers leach off the NHS.

Before starting work in the nursery school my wife was a temp at the Nuffield hospital in Chester. On more than one occasion while she was there people in for surgery such as wisdom teeth being removed ended up being carted off in an NHS ambulance to the Countess of Chester NHS hospital when complications developed.

They simply do not have the facilities to treat the more chronic conditions or to deal with complications arising. Why anyone would actually go there in the first place when this can happen is beyond me.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:44 am  

DaveO wrote:

Before starting work in the nursery school my wife was a temp at the Nuffield hospital in Chester. On more than one occasion while she was there people in for surgery such as wisdom teeth being removed ended up being carted off in an NHS ambulance to the Countess of Chester NHS hospital when complications developed.

They simply do not have the facilities to treat the more chronic conditions or to deal with complications arising. Why anyone would actually go there in the first place when this can happen is beyond me.

They just don't have the workload is the answer.

They don't have the workload because no-one buys private health insurance unless its provided by their employer, and the days when that was considered a "perk" are long gone.

So with diminishing patients they don't make the investment in equipment or staff (because they have to make a profit and investment is profit that is diverted) and the staff that they do provide are often NHS consultants on their day off.

They do hotel services very good though.

I'm with you, I can't imagine why I'd ever want to take Aviva up on their monthly offer to me.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:05 pm  

just an incident that happened with a cousin of mine, He had two in ingrown toe nails whilst waiting for the operation to have them removed (3months originally) they became infected no matter what he did he couldn't stop it from happening. So he got moved up the waiting list whilst not being able to work all in the mean time because he had serious troubles with walking. Two weeks before he is due the op he had a check up and they found he was a carrier of MRSA so it was another 2months before he could have the operation, so all in all 6months of not working earning less money than if he was still working in the end they had to send him to a private hospital (i think somewhere in runshaw) because the toes had become septic and he was very close to losing his 2 big toes because of the NHS. So yeah i will stick to private health care.

Also Davo o i never mentioned the taxes will cover the expense of private school but it will help with the tuition fees for the parents that wish to send there children to private schools. If not wanting to pay for everybody else in life makes you selfish then I'm 100 percent fully selfish but in reality I'm not because i wont make choices i can't afford.