Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:36 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

Price elasticity of supply and demand.

Cost of rental properties in Hull went sky-high when the floods hit back in 07.

I had an empty 4 bedroom rental property during this period and several people who had been flooded enquired about it.

As it was a good property in a nice area, and people were fighting over it, I got offers of £850 a month, compared with my original advertised price of £650 a month.

Very much like the housing market in decent areas of London, where if you have a decent property there will be a bidding war and you will exceed your original asking price.

There's nothing wrong with what Jewson are doing, however, there'll be a reckoning at some point. Back during one of the fuel strikes an enterprising young man decided that petrol could be flogged far more expensively than normal, which is fine as long as a ) you have an endless supply and b ) the strike lasts forever. He didn't, it didn't. He went bust soon after.

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:03 pm  

Mintball wrote:

As non sequiturs go, that's spectacular.

Awww, shucks, thanks!.

A slight point: a vast amount of this winter's flooding and damage has been caused by the sea, not just record levels of rain.

Indeed, however, the sea constantly batters our coastline, the natural and man made flood defences do a pretty good year round job of keeping us fairly dry, but there's always that chance that the water being pulled just a bit like that will mean it is able to get through just there.

Yes, electoral considerations may intervene, but the example of the Netherlands is entirely legitimate as one of showing that, irrespective of the political differences of different governments (there have been prime ministers from three different Dutch parties since 1980 as an example), if the political will is there, long-term planning and long-term action can occur.

The Netherlands had/has little choice but to invest in flood defences, something like 50% of the country is less than 1m above sea level, which is fine if you're land locked and miles from water, not so much if you're a coastal country.

Successive governments have apparently had scientists warning of what was going to happen, but have chosen to fiddle while the floods become more frequent.

Have floods become more frequent, or are they now just being noticed because houses now stand where once was uninhabited land. I don't often agree with Monbiot, but trees make a hell of a difference, and looking at the aerial shots of the flooded areas there's a lack of those to soak up water.

We need some sort of consensus, across all parties, on what needs to be done, because there's no indication that these are simply "freak events", as Owen Paterson likes to characterise them. One would think that that would be common sense.

They're not freak events in so much that parts of the country has flooded since the year dot, and will continue to do so, what we have now though are pictures of people up to their knees in water dumbfounded that the lovely house they bought in the country with the river at the end of the garden could end up like this.

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:14 pm  

After all the rainfall and floods, it looks like we now have to be aware of the threat from giant swans

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:18 pm  

That's just an example of swan upping.

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:34 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote:

That's just an example of swan upping.

Surely swan-upmanship?

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:21 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

The Netherlands had/has little choice but to invest in flood defences, something like 50% of the country is less than 1m above sea level, which is fine if you're land locked and miles from water, not so much if you're a coastal country.

Erm, who's landlocked and miles from water?

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:26 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

After all the rainfall and floods, it looks like we now have to be aware of the threat from giant swans

There is a small bald man sitting inside that swan, peddling like mad you can just see the top of his head above its folded wing.

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:01 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

There is a small bald man sitting inside that swan, peddling like mad you can just see the top of his head above its folded wing.

Can't you see all them callous asylum seekers leering out of that top flat window hatching a plan to trap then BBQ one of her majestys beautiful swans?

Evil bastads, I tell thee!!!

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:08 am  

BobbyD wrote:

Awww, shucks, thanks!

My pleasure entirely.

BobbyD wrote:

Indeed, however, the sea constantly batters our coastline, the natural and man made flood defences do a pretty good year round job of keeping us fairly dry, but there's always that chance that the water being pulled just a bit like that will mean it is able to get through just there.

However, such extreme events are becoming more regular – and this winter's tidal surges were so severe as to destroy or damage many defences.

BobbyD wrote:

The Netherlands had/has little choice but to invest in flood defences, something like 50% of the country is less than 1m above sea level, which is fine if you're land locked and miles from water, not so much if you're a coastal country...

The point remains: there has been and remains a political consensus on maintaining that situation – and improving it. We have had successive governments, irrespective of the work of their own scientists, routinely cutting spending or ignoring the need to improve defences, infrastructure etc, on the grounds of political expediency and nothing else.

BobbyD wrote:

Have floods become more frequent, or are they now just being noticed because houses now stand where once was uninhabited land...

Yes, I think they have. We've always had occasional freak weather, but what is happening now is that is becoming more regular – and not just more regular, but in more places at one time or over a short period of time.

We have, in effect, lost any sense of the seasons: we have no idea what's coming next or when – and this has increasingly been the case for several years.

BobbyD wrote:

... I don't often agree with Monbiot, but trees make a hell of a difference, and looking at the aerial shots of the flooded areas there's a lack of those to soak up water.

I'd treat Monbiot with some care: most deforestation in the UK didn't happen recently, but in Medieval times. And on his argument that, if you look at the map and see the number of places that are called 'forest' but have no trees, he's historically inaccurate, since 'forest' also more generally meant 'hunting area', for instance.

There is an issue with current farming methods and compacted soil, but again, it's far from being the only issue.

BobbyD wrote:

They're not freak events in so much that parts of the country has flooded since the year dot, and will continue to do so, what we have now though are pictures of people up to their knees in water dumbfounded that the lovely house they bought in the country with the river at the end of the garden could end up like this.

As I said above, the frequency with which such events are occurring is increasing. And looking at many of the houses we see in pictures of flooded areas, these are not developments that have all been built in the last 20 years.

Re: Flooding in Tory voting areas ends the era of austerity : Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:10 am  

Big Graeme wrote:

Erm, who's landlocked and miles from water?

I think he's saying that it's okay to have land below sea level if you're landlocked. But then neither are we, which is what destroys his point.