Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:09 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

My heart bleeds for them , so we are talking about the slimeballs of the slimeball industry having to drink a slightly less expensive Champagne and hang onto their Porsches a year longer

No. We're talking about billions of pounds worth of foreign investment entering the country - essentially exports. And that drives the building trade in London, from housebuilding to kitchen fitting, plumbers and electricians. Also the property trade, which means not just estate agents but solicitors and surveyors, removals firms and sign-erectors. And of course all their suppliers and sub-contractors.

Cash doesn't just move from one rich guy to another. It circulates. It might not circulate as much as we'd like, and the Government could certainly do more to make it circulate further (like taxing the wealthy more), but whether you like it or not, those rich foreigners buying London property drove billions of pounds of economic activity. That's essentially what's happening now with the market crash - a huge volume of capital is fleeing the active economy either overseas, or into non-productive assets like Gold. In fact, yesterday I read it was the largest volume of capital flight in UK history, although I can't find the link right now, so don't take my word for it. So it's not getting spent. And when it doesn't get spent, all those people involved in all those trades, most of whom are just ordinary folks like you and me, don't get paid.

The rich will be fine. They've ways of protecting their wealth and shifting it overseas to safety. And if they do take a hit, they can afford it. But when your local estate agent lays off that 19 year-old kid they'd just taken on because the market has dried up, that's the real impact.

I'm sure Boris will be along in a minute to say that it's just "bumps in the road", or "teething issues". Or maybe Farage will pop along to say that the recession we're about to enter will be worth it.

It wasn't Project fear. It was Project Reality. It bites.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:12 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

Yes. Which makes it all the more remarkable that plenty of folks seem to have decided that wasn't hard enough, so voted for an even bigger financial disaster.

Maybe in the 8 years the North and other 'provinces' have been sitting tight they've discovered a love of the Dada art movement - For something new to be created first everything must be destroyed.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:19 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

No. We're talking about billions of pounds worth of foreign investment entering the country - essentially exports. And that drives the building trade in London, from housebuilding to kitchen fitting, plumbers and electricians. Also the property trade, which means not just estate agents but solicitors and surveyors, removals firms and sign-erectors. And of course all their suppliers and sub-contractors.

Cash doesn't just move from one rich guy to another. It circulates. It might not circulate as much as we'd like, and the Government could certainly do more to make it circulate further (like taxing the wealthy more), but whether you like it or not, those rich foreigners buying London property drove billions of pounds of economic activity. That's essentially what's happening now with the market crash - a huge volume of capital is fleeing the active economy either overseas, or into non-productive assets like Gold. In fact, yesterday I read it was the largest volume of capital flight in UK history, although I can't find the link right now, so don't take my word for it. So it's not getting spent. And when it doesn't get spent, all those people involved in all those trades, most of whom are just ordinary folks like you and me, don't get paid.

The rich will be fine. They've ways of protecting their wealth and shifting it overseas to safety. And if they do take a hit, they can afford it. But when your local estate agent lays off that 19 year-old kid they'd just taken on because the market has dried up, that's the real impact.

I'm sure Boris will be along in a minute to say that it's just "bumps in the road", or "teething issues". Or maybe Farage will pop along to say that the recession we're about to enter will be worth it.

It wasn't Project fear. It was Project Reality. It bites.

So their decision to not spend ( for no real reason other than somebody has said so ) is now already causing chaos again because somebody has said so , shows how fragile our economy is


It all just becomes self serving , and that quite often is just fear

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:44 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

So their decision to not spend ( for no real reason other than somebody has said so ) is now already causing chaos again because somebody has said so , shows how fragile our economy is


It all just becomes self serving , and that quite often is just fear

No. Just to be clear, I'm not being insulting, or sneery, or anything else. I'm just describing what is actually happening, right now. While it's true that in some cases, one can "talk down" a single share on the stock market - particularly with an inaccurate rumour, it just isn't the case that one can "talk down" the entire stock market. The algorithms which do most of the trading are impervious to emotion. When the market crashes like this, it's because hundreds of billions of pounds of globally mobile capital is fleeing (or shorting) stocks. You can't "talk down" an economy, because while individual private investors are prone to irrational emotions, the sort of institutions which are behind capital movement of this size, are not. Yes, there's a group mentality, and yes they will seek to follow a trend. But we've had too much denial in the last week. This is real, it's happening. We are having the single biggest financial crash of modern times, and it is directly caused not by a few people moaning about the decision. It's caused by the decision.

We're on the second day. We haven't invoked Article 50 yet. I cannot emphasise enough how bad this is. It's already worse than 2008. The rest of the world thinks we're utterly mad to take this decision, and that our economy is going to shrink, rapidly. They - and our own funds and wealthy investors - are taking their money out, and that makes it, to a certain extent, an even more self-fulfilling philosophy. You might not like that. It might not be what that liar Johnson said would happen. But it's what all the experts predicted, and it is exactly what is happening. It's going to keep happening until either we hit a bottom when that money thinks it's arrived at the new level of the British economy, or when someone puts their brain back in at Westminster and finds a way to stop us all from cutting our own throats.

If you've got savings, I'd advise converting them into dollars and sitting on them for a few weeks. You've already lost a lot of value on them, but there's almost certainly more to come.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:55 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

No. Just to be clear, I'm not being insulting, or sneery, or anything else. I'm just describing what is actually happening, right now. While it's true that in some cases, one can "talk down" a single share on the stock market - particularly with an inaccurate rumour, it just isn't the case that one can "talk down" the entire stock market. The algorithms which do most of the trading are impervious to emotion. When the market crashes like this, it's because hundreds of billions of pounds of globally mobile capital is fleeing (or shorting) stocks. You can't "talk down" an economy, because while individual private investors are prone to irrational emotions, the sort of institutions which are behind capital movement of this size, are not. Yes, there's a group mentality, and yes they will seek to follow a trend. But we've had too much denial in the last week. This is real, it's happening. We are having the single biggest financial crash of modern times, and it is directly caused not by a few people moaning about the decision. It's caused by the decision.

We're on the second day. We haven't invoked Article 50 yet. I cannot emphasise enough how bad this is. It's already worse than 2008. The rest of the world thinks we're utterly mad to take this decision, and that our economy is going to shrink, rapidly. They - and our own funds and wealthy investors - are taking their money out, and that makes it, to a certain extent, an even more self-fulfilling philosophy. You might not like that. It might not be what that liar Johnson said would happen. But it's what all the experts predicted, and it is exactly what is happening. It's going to keep happening until either we hit a bottom when that money thinks it's arrived at the new level of the British economy, or when someone puts their brain back in at Westminster and finds a way to stop us all from cutting our own throats.

If you've got savings, I'd advise converting them into dollars and sitting on them for a few weeks. You've already lost a lot of value on them, but there's almost certainly more to come.

But when you have our PM 12 months ago saying ( when he thought his opinion was a shoe in ) we would be fine outside the EU , then when seeing he might lose predicting Armageddon , who has sown the seeds of fear ?

I notice George changed his tune this morning when asked about his budget

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:09 pm  

Getting away from the economics of the decision today we saw the real EU , the German Chancellor with her 2 lap dogs , we've never really been a genuine member of the EU club , opting out of fundamental parts of its ideals , so the choice actually was

Do we pull out now ? , or jump in with both feet no longer being the awkward member of the family ?

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:14 pm  

That wasn't even slightly the choice.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:40 pm  

Leave campaign lies withdrawn so far

Leave campaign lies withdrawn so far

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:42 pm  

Backwards mentality of Leave voters exposed:

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 am  

Dally wrote:

I guess that's sarcasm? If not, what a load of rubbish.

I am sick of BBC / Guardian / etc suggesting all Leave votes were thick, poor, Northerners. They conveniently ignore all the well off folk who did. People for example in the affluent Home Counties who work in London and often run or own businesses there.

Older people have more experience and so their votes should count double if you want to be silly.

Already Australia and New Zealand have said they want to sign a free trade agreement with UK. If and when India and China do, then you will realise how stupid being tied to EU was.

I do not consider my family very stupid and the 4 of us who voted all voted leave. One campaigned for it. He is in his 20's and works. My daughter is a student (not one of thickos who are moaning) and she did. Between the two kids they have 24 grade A / A* GCSE, a hatful of A levels, the eldest has two degrees from a decent university (including a first), has only been working a few years and earns more than twice the national average. Even the wife and I have degrees from decent universities. The kids are not racists either - one has a Polish girlfriend, the other a Chinese boyfriend. How do you explain all that if your proposition was at all serious?

Then they are educated, (but given what I have read as an observer over the years, most of your posts are rubbish and lies), but they voted in a way to screw up their own futures...