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Re: Fracking revisited : Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:22 pm  
Well it looks like we might well be getting it near to Doncaster in the Gainsborough trough.
I really can't see that fracking won't go ahead despite objections.
It's business.
I'm a scientist.
Business>Science.
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Re: Fracking revisited : Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:39 am  
The US experience of low-price shale gas will not be replicable in the UK. The reason the cost of gas has fallen through the floor there is that the US has experienced a glut of gas as more and more producers piled into the sector. Costs across the industry fell through the floor as drillers, pipeliners etc poured in and competed to get gas to market and buyers were able to push prices down due to oversupply.

It is almost impossible for the same dynamics to occur in the UK or elsewhere in Europe - environmental regulations and lack of a "small co" oil/gas sector mean it is much more likely to mirror the Australian unconventional gas industry - all investment and operations being run by a few multinationals, with projects underwritten by long-term contacts.

The rationale for seeking more gas is also different. In the US gas had an enormous ready-made domestic market, with limited import-export capability ensuring prices were not linked to international prices. The UK is part of a gas trading hub - so unless the government mandates that all shale gas has to go to domestic use, it will be priced at close to export parity. There is no driver for producers to sell at US prices.

The US has gone from a net importer of gas and (actually quite contrary to what some have said) is beginning to allow limited exports of gas. The simple reason is that gas sells for maybe $4/GJ in the US, vs $9+ in Europe and more like $14 in Asia. With shipping costs maybe $1-2 depending on the market, its an absolute no-brainer to export as much as possible, with Asia the preferred market (particularly as Asia already has significant regasification facilities).

US gas is so cheap that its even displaced coal for electricity generation. This has also had the effect of reducing CO2 emissions from electricity in a country with no carbon pricing. By contrast, Germany has accepted the fact that coal is much cheaper in Europe and is building significant coal generation capacity in recognition of excessive electricity prices, despite the hit on future CO2.

Whether fracking is environmentally safe is open to question, but the chances of it leading to falling gas prices for UK consumers is negligible.
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Re: Fracking revisited : Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:00 am  
Has Ajw71 provided those links and answered Sheldon's questions yet?
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:14 am  
Get drilling. It's all guess work and conjecture at the minute, from all sides.
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:31 am  
BobbyD wrote:
Get drilling. It's all guess work and conjecture at the minute, from all sides.


The only SLIGHT snag is that the last time they started drilling, this happened http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15550458

And the comment from the report that says that its highly likely that the fracking DID cause the tremours but that its highly unlikely to happen elsewhere is only SLIGHTLY offset by the fact that the company who caused the issue actually paid for the report too.
BobbyD wrote:
Get drilling. It's all guess work and conjecture at the minute, from all sides.


The only SLIGHT snag is that the last time they started drilling, this happened http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15550458

And the comment from the report that says that its highly likely that the fracking DID cause the tremours but that its highly unlikely to happen elsewhere is only SLIGHTLY offset by the fact that the company who caused the issue actually paid for the report too.
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:46 am  
JerryChicken wrote:
The only SLIGHT snag is that the last time they started drilling, this happened http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15550458

And the comment from the report that says that its highly likely that the fracking DID cause the tremours but that its highly unlikely to happen elsewhere is only SLIGHTLY offset by the fact that the company who caused the issue actually paid for the report too.


Did the "Big One" fall down? Or the tower? Just get on with it. Of course the fracking caused the tremors, and it probably will again, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something.
JerryChicken wrote:
The only SLIGHT snag is that the last time they started drilling, this happened http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15550458

And the comment from the report that says that its highly likely that the fracking DID cause the tremours but that its highly unlikely to happen elsewhere is only SLIGHTLY offset by the fact that the company who caused the issue actually paid for the report too.


Did the "Big One" fall down? Or the tower? Just get on with it. Of course the fracking caused the tremors, and it probably will again, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something.
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:18 am  
BobbyD wrote:
Did the "Big One" fall down? Or the tower? Just get on with it. Of course the fracking caused the tremors, and it probably will again, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something.


Well they won't be doing it on the original site as the company themselves had environmental concerns in connection to their licence to operate http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/04/cuadrilla-close-lancashire-fracking-exploration-birds and of course all the talk in the article about gas extraction "powering the UK for decades" is known to be nonsense as its clear that UK gas will powering the rest of Europe rather than being retained for domestic use, still, Blackpool could easily cope with a series of earthquakes, could even make some improvements...
BobbyD wrote:
Did the "Big One" fall down? Or the tower? Just get on with it. Of course the fracking caused the tremors, and it probably will again, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something.


Well they won't be doing it on the original site as the company themselves had environmental concerns in connection to their licence to operate http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/04/cuadrilla-close-lancashire-fracking-exploration-birds and of course all the talk in the article about gas extraction "powering the UK for decades" is known to be nonsense as its clear that UK gas will powering the rest of Europe rather than being retained for domestic use, still, Blackpool could easily cope with a series of earthquakes, could even make some improvements...
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:07 pm  
Just a point especially for those who oppose fracking but drive a vehicle.

You are aware of how oil is removed from beneath the earths surface aren't you?
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:35 pm  
BobbyD wrote:
Did the "Big One" fall down? Or the tower? Just get on with it. Of course the fracking caused the tremors, and it probably will again, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something.


:CRAZY:

I'm curious: just how much risk of tremors, earthquakes, screwed-up water etc do you personally consider acceptable in the dash for gas?


BobbyD wrote:
... It's all guess work and conjecture at the minute, from all sides.


No. It isn't.

The links I posted earlier are not about conjecture.
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Re: Fracking revisited : Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:48 pm  
BobbyD wrote:
Did the "Big One" fall down? Or the tower? Just get on with it. Of course the fracking caused the tremors, and it probably will again, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something.


You're quite right, there's nothing else we can do. No chance of using renewable energy at all.

Who gives a love what affect it has on the environment and safety, as long as someone can make a profit.
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