Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:41 am  

TheButcher wrote:

The first part of your quote is correct. Those planes were based in the UK at various points. The second half is wrong though. The US would never put any experimental aircraft or technology outside of the USA. They would put aircraft that weren't experimental, something 'in service' abroad but nothing experimental. Countries tend to keep its investments and secrets within its own borders at early stages. I was a Military Intelligence Analyst and worked in the most sensitive Military areas in the UK including the American bases. The truth is a lot less sensational than some seem to make out. There simply isn't any experimental aircraft in the UK from any nation. We're too broke as a nation to invest in such things and the US only bases in service aircraft over here, and has only ever done so. Aircraft such as the U2 were 'secret' in the loosest sense of the word, but were not experimental in any way. The first U2 came into service in 1957 after being 'experimental' for two years.

Plasma drives and crop circles may have validity in some other area but they certainly have no validity within the UK military or UK based US military. They simply don't exist in that context.

To be fair I've kind of concatenated the experimental and operational phases. The story of this propulsion system stretches way back to the Nazi "Glocke" (Bell) Project. According to those who have dug deep into its history the scientists who participated managed to get very close. Unfortunately (or fortunately - depending on which side of the fence you are on) they lacked a sufficiently compact power source which meant it could only operate within the laboratory tied to an external feed.

At the end of WWII it seems the whole operation was shipped lock, stock and barrel to Peron's Argentina where they made some kind of a breakthrough.

There is at least some evidence which suggests it was this device and not a crashed alien UFO which resulted in the whole Roswell cover story. The official report makes no mention of extra-terrestrials but the interesting thing is that immediately after whatever took place the Americans suddenly kickstarted a worldwide manhunt for all those who had worked on the project in Germany during the war.

Whatever solutions the Germans had come up with I'm sure the Americans with their expertise in developing powerful, compact and efficient nuclear generators would have gone one step further.

I don't see any issue with such a device loitering over farmers' fields. A by-product of a supercharged rotating plasma would be tremendous electrical potentials which would doubtlessly need to be discharged to earth before returning to base. Given that US military bases contain enough ordnance to blast a county off the map I very much doubt the base commander would take kindly to such a craft returning home with a few million volts in tow.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:26 am  

On the topic of the moon landings I've defended the official story for over forty years. Apollo played a huge part in defining many of the interests I've retained throughout my life. Consequently I've always been willing to cut the program more slack than it deserved given that NASA was always an appendage of the DoD.

From the beginning I knew there were some very serious problems with the official story (such as the deadly bands of radiation which shield the earth from solar wind) and I found myself constructing elaborate get-out-of-jail passes for each and every one of them.

But what I hadn't done was look into the mountain of evidence which had been uncovered since I first began to hear about these concerns way back in the early nineties. When I did the whole Apollo story just collapsed.

I realise that like me people have a lot invested in this project but they really do need to abandon the sinking ship before it takes them down too. Any scientist who supports the official story no longer deserves to be labelled such IMO.

I mean, I'm fairly certain all of the astronauts went into earth orbit. But no further.

For those who might be on the fence I encourage you to take a look at some of the first press conferences given by the Apollo XI astronauts immediately after they returned to earth. I'd never seen any of these broadcasts until recently and it didn't take long before I could guess at WHY they are rarely shown.

I don't claim to be some kind of an expert on body language - but even so I know enough about human behavior to spot three people exhibiting all the classic signs of extreme discomfort, embarrassment and anger. Indeed, I genuinely felt sorry for them.

It's interesting to note than when confronted by some problematic fact the most passionate defenders of the Moon landing story invariably resort to statements such as, "You conspiracy theorists are forever coming up with new ways of attacking the Apollo missions" - without ever stopping to THINK about the significance of what they are saying.

In most walks of life the more evidence you have AGAINST something the less certain we can be of it. Yet whenever we talk about the moon landing the more contradictory evidence we accumulate the GREATER people's faith becomes.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:10 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I realise that like me people have a lot invested in this project but they really do need to abandon the sinking ship before it takes them down too. Any scientist who supports the official story no longer deserves to be labelled such IMO.

I agree 100%. They NASA have been raping the American public with regards to money and truth in their existence. I also agree these NASA employee's have zero credibility especially their So Called Scientists and Scientists who back up the obvious claptrap.

Mugwump wrote:

I mean, I'm fairly certain all of the astronauts went into earth orbit. But no further.

This was proven on that fantastic secret documentary A funny thing happened on the way to the moon. Low orbit was their location when they were caught red handed and filmed faking the Earths curvature through the window. Awesome viewing.

Mugwump wrote:

I don't claim to be some kind of an expert on body language - but even so I know enough about human behavior to spot three people exhibiting all the classic signs of extreme discomfort, embarrassment and anger. Indeed, I genuinely felt sorry for them.

Yeah i've also watched this interview, where they mentioned or failed to mention the Star constellations. They were obviously Rabbits caught in the headlights with their body language and demeanour. So that's why NASA's credibility is Nil. But the question must be raised Why did they fake it. Forget the Cold War nonsense because Russia, Canada, China, Japan and Europe all new this was hoaxed, they're all faking their own programmes.IMHO

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:28 pm  

I should have added that there's a ton of evidence that Kubrick indeed worked on the faking of the moon landings. The documentary Room 237 made a pretty good case but it didn't go far enough for me to buy it completely. However, after immersing myself in the follow-up research to that documentary I had to admit that it was becoming harder and harder to deny what seemed like an obvious truth. The clincher for me was reading Dave McGowan's book, Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon which revealed that all through the Apollo program the US military actually ran the most advanced and fully self-contained movie studio on the planet. This classified installation, labelled "Lookout Mountain Airforce Station" was based in California. We know that Kubrick was in California around this time and wrote extensively about his complete disenchantment with his "work". I suspect that he was initially drafted into the project as a contingency measure. I think NASA genuinely wanted to put men on the moon but as their knowledge of the brutal conditions astronauts were going to face increased it soon became impossible to countenance a suicide mission. At that point the contingency plan was activated and Kubrick was summoned.

I should have added that there's a ton of evidence that Kubrick indeed worked on the faking of the moon landings. The documentary Room 237 made a pretty good case but it didn't go far enough for me to buy it completely. However, after immersing myself in the follow-up research to that documentary I had to admit that it was becoming harder and harder to deny what seemed like an obvious truth. The clincher for me was reading Dave McGowan's book, Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon which revealed that all through the Apollo program the US military actually ran the most advanced and fully self-contained movie studio on the planet. This classified installation, labelled "Lookout Mountain Airforce Station" was based in California. We know that Kubrick was in California around this time and wrote extensively about his complete disenchantment with his "work". I suspect that he was initially drafted into the project as a contingency measure. I think NASA genuinely wanted to put men on the moon but as their knowledge of the brutal conditions astronauts were going to face increased it soon became impossible to countenance a suicide mission. At that point the contingency plan was activated and Kubrick was summoned.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:31 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

The Holy Spirit? The one that raped a married virgin, apparently? Why would anyone want anything to do with such a knob, even if he did exist?

Gee whizz what a great example you set to future generations. Classy.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:54 pm  

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

But the question must be raised Why did they fake it.

Two possibilities. Either as I said above - they couldn't deliver with the technology they had available at the time or they could (and had already done so) but prefer not to talk about it for reasons they won't share.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:07 pm  

I've never really looked into the moon landing from a conspiracy aspect, mainly because I suppose I've always wanted it so much to be true. The act of turning a weapon of war (the rocket) into a wonderful act of discovery and exploration is something I was desperate to be true.
But both the press conference and the video of the astronauts faking the shots of earth are compelling.
Maybe there's some reason for them faking those shots (pretending the earth is further away than it is) but even then, if the dates ascribed to that video are true then they didnt have time to get from near earth to the moon to be walking on it on the day that it's told they did. The bit with someone saying "talk", again, maybe can be explained away but is still suspicious.

But the thing that really made me sit up was the press conference. You've just been to the Moon. The single greatest achievement in the history of mankind, possibly the single greatest achievement in the history of the universe. You'd be elated surely? Excited, relieved, possibly tried or drained and maybe nervous in front of tv cameras. But you wouldn't be withdrawn, sullen, objectionable or not forthcoming with answers to questions. You'd be wanting to tell everyone every little detail you saw and what it was like surely?

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:25 pm  

Look at the first photograph of the astronauts back on earth in the decontamination pod with Richard Nixon stood talking to them. They look like three guys who've just heard their wives have been cheating on them.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:55 pm  

The interesting thing about McGowan's book is that it fills in a lot of the blanks which are present in Room 237.

The presence of Lookout Mountain is the most obvious point but what really fascinated me were the countless references Kubrick made in The Shining to the goings on in Laurel Canyon.

Chief among them would be none other than "The Overlook Hotel" which was used as part of the ultra-secret MKULTRA mind-control program. As anyone who has watched The Shining will know, the hotel that Jack Torrance (played by Jack Nicholson) occupies is also called "The Overlook Hotel". It's worth mentioning that soon after the end of the Apollo program the entire facility burned to the ground in mysterious circumstances. Try comparing the hotel from the movie with those pictures that exist of the Laurel Canyon facility.

I don't think it's an accident that very soon after Kubrick chose to make a film about mind control and he almost certainly drew from his experiences working out of Laurel Canyon.

For years the story was that the author of A Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess, fell out with Kubrick over the director's changes to the screenplay. What I didn't know was that Burgess himself admitted that it was Kubrick who had given him the idea for the book as far back as 1965.

I think it's clear that Kubrick's experiences in California left a very deep impression on him. So much so that he packed up and left America for good.

Re: NASA and Space general conspiracy discussions : Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:17 pm  

The weird thing about the whole Kubrick angle is somebody is going to great lengths to try and create an entirely bogus Kubrick narrative.

One documentary - or perhaps mockumentary - in particular whose name escapes me is made up entirely of interviews of key people such as Henry Kissinger, Kubrick's wife, Donald Rumsfeld etc. etc. with their words taken completely out of context and then woven together creating what is on the surface a plausible explanation for Kubrick's involvement.

Now, I can see someone doing this kind of a thing as a prank. But the film is just that bit TOO PROFESSIONAL for me to believe it was created by a bunch of bored high-school students.