Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:28 am  

[quote="Sal Paradise")

Rees Mogg - is a dinasour but a very underrated dinasour - you can't have a situation whereby the elected government is not running parliament. That is not what we voted for a bit like Brexit - just because the MP's don't agree it doesn't mean they can simply ride rough-shot over the vote. It like the country voting in the Tories and the MPs deciding Labour are going to run the country.[/quote]

If the elected government is incapable of governing within a democracy, they should call an election and give the people the opportunity to vote in a government that CAN run the country.(i'm not sure that Corbyn can either) but, shutting down government because the elected party cant govern is just plain ridiculous.
Maybe it's yet another ploy to run down the Brexit clock, a bit like throwing the ball off the pitch (or teddy out of the pram).

Mrs May has proved herself to be stubborn to the point of contempt and she should walk

As for Rees Mogg…………………………...

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:05 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We are not worthy - I know my position now - e.g. Diane Abbot closing her eyes and wagging her finger whilst making statements that indicate the utter contempt that elite Socialists have for the working class.

Dyson is not moving within the EU so his move is no different to us leaving no deal - he manufactures outside of the EU and doesn't seem to have a problem with his supply chain into the EU perhaps his practical experience is worth noting. Of course all these complicated supply chains are suddenly going to collapse when we leave the EU - of course they are!!

Rees Mogg - is a dinasour but a very underrated dinasour - you can't have a situation whereby the elected government is not running parliament. That is not what we voted for a bit like Brexit - just because the MP's don't agree it doesn't mean they can simply ride rough-shot over the vote. It like the country voting in the Tories and the MPs deciding Labour are going to run the country.

1. I don't know what you're on about.
2. Spin it all you like - but all your anti-establishment Brexit heroes are scrambling for the exits, leaving useful idiots like you to bear the brunt of the negative impact of their self-interested desire to pay less tax
3. He's the opposite - he's overrated, based largely on his veneer of posh eccentricity, and the ingrained forelock tugging deference we have for people like him in this country; much like Boris Johnson, he has a dangerous ideology and is entirely interested in, primarily, himself and his peers.

You Brexiteers liked the idea of taking back control and the sovereignty of parliament - not so keen now are you?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:39 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

you can't have a situation whereby the elected government is not running parliament.

Well, you clearly can in a hung parliament in which the minority government’s confidence and supply partner won’t vote for its most important bill. And the largest party is kept in power by 100+ backbench MPs who have no confidence in their party leader and prime minister but do, somewhat bizarrely, have confidence in her government. And also won’t vote for its most important bill.

Strong and stable it ain’t.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:42 pm  

bren2k wrote:

3. He's the opposite - he's overrated, based largely on his veneer of posh eccentricity, and the ingrained forelock tugging deference we have for people like him in this country; much like Boris Johnson, he has a dangerous ideology and is entirely interested in, primarily, himself and his peers.

Stick something like that on t-shirt!

And make it the uniform at every school, including ‘School’.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:27 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

If the elected government is incapable of governing within a democracy, they should call an election and give the people the opportunity to vote in a government that CAN run the country.(i'm not sure that Corbyn can either) but, shutting down government because the elected party cant govern is just plain ridiculous.
Maybe it's yet another ploy to run down the Brexit clock, a bit like throwing the ball off the pitch (or teddy out of the pram).

Mrs May has proved herself to be stubborn to the point of contempt and she should walk

As for Rees Mogg…………………………...

I am not disagreeing with you - May has been a disaster and I am no fan of Rees Mogg - the Tories are more than capable of running the government what they can do is get a deal across the line when there are so many MPs against it. Labour couldn't either their policy is stay in the single market i.e. remain.

My view was always been the only way out is no deal - and if you want another referendum it should be no deal or remain simple.

Nobody is dressing up Dyson what he is doing is re-positioning himself for when we leave because what is going to happen - this is pretty simple - our imports from within the EU will drop and we will see an increase in imports from the far east, China and India/Bangladesh. These countries have already seen the opportunity and the EU know that - why do you think the EU doesn't want a no deal?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:47 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: why do you think the EU doesn't want a no deal? Because of the immediate disruption and because the medium-term impact on our economy will have some some pretty grim ripple effects. The Japanese PM also doesn't want no deal either. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46826345 It's not like it's a zero sum game, where people are worried about whether we'll buy products or services from Europe or Asia - it's the extent to which we'll be buying anything at all from anybody. Basically, most people don't want to see other people jump off a tall building. Yes, the decision to jump can be described as taking control and you're free to shout whatever you want as you plummet to the ground - but it won't end well and somebody else has to scrub the blood off the pavement.

Sal Paradise wrote: why do you think the EU doesn't want a no deal? Because of the immediate disruption and because the medium-term impact on our economy will have some some pretty grim ripple effects. The Japanese PM also doesn't want no deal either. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46826345 It's not like it's a zero sum game, where people are worried about whether we'll buy products or services from Europe or Asia - it's the extent to which we'll be buying anything at all from anybody. Basically, most people don't want to see other people jump off a tall building. Yes, the decision to jump can be described as taking control and you're free to shout whatever you want as you plummet to the ground - but it won't end well and somebody else has to scrub the blood off the pavement.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:36 pm  

Just how much of this stuff is going on ? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/j ... s-johnson-£10000-three-days-before-speech/ar-BBSFNSX?ocid=spartanntp We have celebrities "innocently" endorsing products, ensuring that their disciples buy particular items and then Government ministers getting paid to speak highly of a major company, which is then broadcast on the news as "just another speech". I'm sure they are all wonderful people but, is this the world that we want to live in. We criticise the corruption in other countries and yet cant get enough of our "hard working" government ministers.

Just how much of this stuff is going on ? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/j ... s-johnson-£10000-three-days-before-speech/ar-BBSFNSX?ocid=spartanntp We have celebrities "innocently" endorsing products, ensuring that their disciples buy particular items and then Government ministers getting paid to speak highly of a major company, which is then broadcast on the news as "just another speech". I'm sure they are all wonderful people but, is this the world that we want to live in. We criticise the corruption in other countries and yet cant get enough of our "hard working" government ministers.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:24 pm  

Mild Rover wrote: Because of the immediate disruption and because the medium-term impact on our economy will have some some pretty grim ripple effects. The Japanese PM also doesn't want no deal either. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46826345 It's not like it's a zero sum game, where people are worried about whether we'll buy products or services from Europe or Asia - it's the extent to which we'll be buying anything at all from anybody. Basically, most people don't want to see other people jump off a tall building. Yes, the decision to jump can be described as taking control and you're free to shout whatever you want as you plummet to the ground - but it won't end well and somebody else has to scrub the blood off the pavement. Japan will suffer too it is not a low cost manufacturer - its in its interest to maintain the status quo. The bit I don't understand is how is that huge amounts of freight manages to flow seamlessly from outside of the EU into the EU and all of a sudden that is going to change. The existing supply chain routes/methodology isn't going to change all that will happen this sector of logistics will increase i.e. Vietnam/Bangladesh/Taiwan etc and out reliance on more expensive product from Europe i.e. Germany/France/Spain/Italy will diminish. You are suggesting tea currently sourced from India/China is not going to be available from the same supply chain using the same methodology - really. I phones are suddenly going to dry as is NZ lamb - come on a reality check is required. This is project fear and you talk about a red bus!! Its not a zero sum game - actual could be a win sum game. Most people haven't got the desire to do new things but they want the benefit of others taking risks - stand still and one thing happens its a downward spiral. If you want your world to be run primarily by the likes of Barnier and Tusk un-elected bureaucrats where you have very little influence good luck to you.

Mild Rover wrote: Because of the immediate disruption and because the medium-term impact on our economy will have some some pretty grim ripple effects. The Japanese PM also doesn't want no deal either. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46826345 It's not like it's a zero sum game, where people are worried about whether we'll buy products or services from Europe or Asia - it's the extent to which we'll be buying anything at all from anybody. Basically, most people don't want to see other people jump off a tall building. Yes, the decision to jump can be described as taking control and you're free to shout whatever you want as you plummet to the ground - but it won't end well and somebody else has to scrub the blood off the pavement. Japan will suffer too it is not a low cost manufacturer - its in its interest to maintain the status quo. The bit I don't understand is how is that huge amounts of freight manages to flow seamlessly from outside of the EU into the EU and all of a sudden that is going to change. The existing supply chain routes/methodology isn't going to change all that will happen this sector of logistics will increase i.e. Vietnam/Bangladesh/Taiwan etc and out reliance on more expensive product from Europe i.e. Germany/France/Spain/Italy will diminish. You are suggesting tea currently sourced from India/China is not going to be available from the same supply chain using the same methodology - really. I phones are suddenly going to dry as is NZ lamb - come on a reality check is required. This is project fear and you talk about a red bus!! Its not a zero sum game - actual could be a win sum game. Most people haven't got the desire to do new things but they want the benefit of others taking risks - stand still and one thing happens its a downward spiral. If you want your world to be run primarily by the likes of Barnier and Tusk un-elected bureaucrats where you have very little influence good luck to you.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:28 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Just how much of this stuff is going on ? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/j ... s-johnson-£10000-three-days-before-speech/ar-BBSFNSX?ocid=spartanntp We have celebrities "innocently" endorsing products, ensuring that their disciples buy particular items and then Government ministers getting paid to speak highly of a major company, which is then broadcast on the news as "just another speech". I'm sure they are all wonderful people but, is this the world that we want to live in. We criticise the corruption in other countries and yet cant get enough of our "hard working" government ministers. Is Johnson a minister? Grow up this has been going on for as long as we have had MP's - Jim Callaghan was postman before he went into a lowly paid union/MP job but ended up living in a mansion - how did that happen? I guarantee if somebody offered you 10k to make a speech you be going where and when

wrencat1873 wrote: Just how much of this stuff is going on ? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/j ... s-johnson-£10000-three-days-before-speech/ar-BBSFNSX?ocid=spartanntp We have celebrities "innocently" endorsing products, ensuring that their disciples buy particular items and then Government ministers getting paid to speak highly of a major company, which is then broadcast on the news as "just another speech". I'm sure they are all wonderful people but, is this the world that we want to live in. We criticise the corruption in other countries and yet cant get enough of our "hard working" government ministers. Is Johnson a minister? Grow up this has been going on for as long as we have had MP's - Jim Callaghan was postman before he went into a lowly paid union/MP job but ended up living in a mansion - how did that happen? I guarantee if somebody offered you 10k to make a speech you be going where and when

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:12 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Is Johnson a minister? Grow up this has been going on for as long as we have had MP's - Jim Callaghan was postman before he went into a lowly paid union/MP job but ended up living in a mansion - how did that happen?

I guarantee if somebody offered you 10k to make a speech you be going where and when

Sorry pal but, you miss the point.

When Johnson was splattered all over the media, making his speech at JCB, there was no mention that he had been paid to do so, it was show as him supporting UK business and talking about Brexit.

Perhaps it should have been advertised as a party political / Brexit broadcast.

I can accept his work as an MP but it's not right that glorified after dinner speaking (I'm sure there will have been a good nose bag thrown in), is portrayed as NEWS, which it clearly isn't. - That's why I included the analogy of celebrities "advertising" certain product's.
Again, no problem in anyone saying "this is great, you should try it" BUT, if they are being paid to say that or paid to use the product, it's wrong.

If his speech hadn't made the news, I've absolutely no issue with it but, you (and I) are being conned. You could call it propaganda.