Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:29 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry pal but, you miss the point.

When Johnson was splattered all over the media, making his speech at JCB, there was no mention that he had been paid to do so, it was show as him supporting UK business and talking about Brexit.

Perhaps it should have been advertised as a party political / Brexit broadcast.

I can accept his work as an MP but it's not right that glorified after dinner speaking (I'm sure there will have been a good nose bag thrown in), is portrayed as NEWS, which it clearly isn't. - That's why I included the analogy of celebrities "advertising" certain product's.
Again, no problem in anyone saying "this is great, you should try it" BUT, if they are being paid to say that or paid to use the product, it's wrong.

If his speech hadn't made the news, I've absolutely no issue with it but, you (and I) are being conned. You could call it propaganda.

So Airbus coming out yesterday to say they are going to close down a perfectly grooved manufacturing plant and all the disruption that would cause is not the same thing just from the remain side?

We both know they will not do it and if they did it would take years to move an operation of that size - it just propaganda on the side of remain.

I am unsure how Airbus dare hold their head up after the issues around illegal subsidies they pocketed!!

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:29 pm  

Absolutely Sal, was talking to a friend who works at Airbus a few weeks ago, I was telling him how much I loved the 380, he went on to say that he was worried about his job, absolutely nothing to do with Brexit or the so called uncertainty it was the lack of sales of the A380, they were actually thinking of scrapping it, I believe that Emirates have put an order in for more 380s more recently. He went on to say that the company have spent millions on the plant its just not feasible just to close it down and move everything just because of Brexit uncertainty. Business just seems to want to blame Brexit including JLR.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:45 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

So Airbus coming out yesterday to say they are going to close down a perfectly grooved manufacturing plant and all the disruption that would cause is not the same thing just from the remain side?

We both know they will not do it and if they did it would take years to move an operation of that size - it just propaganda on the side of remain.

I am unsure how Airbus dare hold their head up after the issues around illegal subsidies they pocketed!!

You still, deliberately, miss the point.
Johnson was paid £60,000 to make those comments, hoe the hell is that right and how the hell is it NEWS, it cash for support of Brexit.
Airbus may well have been encouraged to step forward with their "stand point" but, unless you are telling me that they were paid to do so, its clearly not the same.

There is tit-for-tat comments coming from all angles and it only to be expected but, FFS, someone being paid by a 3rd party company to make a speech in favour of their own POV is indeed dipping into murky waters.

There should be some trust in the output of the BBC (who covered his visit) and they should have said that he was INVITED and PAID to speak, it's not difficult and it should be fairly simple for you to understand that this wasn't news.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:00 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

So Airbus coming out yesterday to say they are going to close down a perfectly grooved manufacturing plant and all the disruption that would cause is not the same thing just from the remain side?

We both know they will not do it and if they did it would take years to move an operation of that size - it just propaganda on the side of remain.

I am unsure how Airbus dare hold their head up after the issues around illegal subsidies they pocketed!!

It was more about shifting future investment than upping sticks at the start of April, from what I read. And I think wrencat’s point was more about a lack on transparency than about what Johnson said.

But yeah, it could turn out like the millennium bug I suppose. Fingers crossed, eh?

Weirdly, I think we’re reaching the stage where, rather than being a remote possibility, something dramatic has to happen to avoid no deal. I’m not sure there’s anybody in a position to make a difference whose fear of it is deeper than their entrenched position.

While May is clearly trying and has possibly even succeeded already in running down the clock, there will come a point when the the prospect of no deal becomes a double edged sword. If it turns out she wasted two years for no return, and moderates start resigning from her cabinet, on top of her terrible and unnecessary election campaign, having more than a third of her MPs support a vote of no confidence in her leadership, suffering the largest Commons defeat in history, then pound-for-pound, it could be the worst premiership... ever? And nobody wants to be remembered like that. However, i’m not sure there’s anyway out for her. Or us.

Still, at least we’re showing the rest of the world what we’re made of.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:23 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You still, deliberately, miss the point.
Johnson was paid £60,000 to make those comments, hoe the hell is that right and how the hell is it NEWS, it cash for support of Brexit.
Airbus may well have been encouraged to step forward with their "stand point" but, unless you are telling me that they were paid to do so, its clearly not the same.

There is tit-for-tat comments coming from all angles and it only to be expected but, FFS, someone being paid by a 3rd party company to make a speech in favour of their own POV is indeed dipping into murky waters.

There should be some trust in the output of the BBC (who covered his visit) and they should have said that he was INVITED and PAID to speak, it's not difficult and it should be fairly simple for you to understand that this wasn't news.

If what you are saying is true re Johnsons speech, which I have no reason at all to doubt, given the recent history of the majority of our MP's from all our parties, re second homes, expenses scandal etc etc, I'm surprised at your naivety that ANY of our politician would not except the same offer.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

It was more about shifting future investment than upping sticks at the start of April, from what I read. And I think wrencat’s point was more about a lack on transparency than about what Johnson said.

But yeah, it could turn out like the millennium bug I suppose. Fingers crossed, eh?

Weirdly, I think we’re reaching the stage where, rather than being a remote possibility, something dramatic has to happen to avoid no deal. I’m not sure there’s anybody in a position to make a difference whose fear of it is deeper than their entrenched position.

While May is clearly trying and has possibly even succeeded already in running down the clock, there will come a point when the the prospect of no deal becomes a double edged sword. If it turns out she wasted two years for no return, and moderates start resigning from her cabinet, on top of her terrible and unnecessary election campaign, having more than a third of her MPs support a vote of no confidence in her leadership, suffering the largest Commons defeat in history, then pound-for-pound, it could be the worst premiership... ever? And nobody wants to be remembered like that. However, i’m not sure there’s anyway out for her. Or us.

Still, at least we’re showing the rest of the world what we’re made of.

ha ha ha aint we just re your last line, I'm so embarrassed

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:33 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

It was more about shifting future investment than upping sticks at the start of April, from what I read. And I think wrencat’s point was more about a lack on transparency than about what Johnson said.

But yeah, it could turn out like the millennium bug I suppose. Fingers crossed, eh?

Weirdly, I think we’re reaching the stage where, rather than being a remote possibility, something dramatic has to happen to avoid no deal. I’m not sure there’s anybody in a position to make a difference whose fear of it is deeper than their entrenched position.

While May is clearly trying and has possibly even succeeded already in running down the clock, there will come a point when the the prospect of no deal becomes a double edged sword. If it turns out she wasted two years for no return, and moderates start resigning from her cabinet, on top of her terrible and unnecessary election campaign, having more than a third of her MPs support a vote of no confidence in her leadership, suffering the largest Commons defeat in history, then pound-for-pound, it could be the worst premiership... ever? And nobody wants to be remembered like that. However, i’m not sure there’s anyway out for her. Or us.

Still, at least we’re showing the rest of the world what we’re made of.

Completely agree re. your points about May - an unmitigated disaster as a PM. I doubt Labour would have done any better - easy to agree to stay in the single market its simply remain under a different banner.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:36 pm  

POSTL wrote:

If what you are saying is true re Johnsons speech, which I have no reason at all to doubt, given the recent history of the majority of our MP's from all our parties, re second homes, expenses scandal etc etc, I'm surprised at your naivety that ANY of our politician would not except the same offer.

There is no naivety on my part.
I'm just annoyed at how his speech was reported.

If I come on here and say that you are a top bloke and everyone believes me , that's fine.
However, if you send me £50 to say that you are a top bloke and being greedy and mercenary, I accept your cash, big your reputation up and get my mug on TV saying what a great guy you are, then that wouldn't be right, regardless of how decent a chap you may actually be. They used to call it a bribe but, I wouldn't want to suggest that on here.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:46 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You still, deliberately, miss the point.
Johnson was paid £60,000 to make those comments, hoe the hell is that right and how the hell is it NEWS, it cash for support of Brexit.
Airbus may well have been encouraged to step forward with their "stand point" but, unless you are telling me that they were paid to do so, its clearly not the same.

There is tit-for-tat comments coming from all angles and it only to be expected but, FFS, someone being paid by a 3rd party company to make a speech in favour of their own POV is indeed dipping into murky waters.

There should be some trust in the output of the BBC (who covered his visit) and they should have said that he was INVITED and PAID to speak, it's not difficult and it should be fairly simple for you to understand that this wasn't news.

Not at all - Johnson was paid £10k for his speech to the biggest manufacturer of industrial/construction machinery in the UK. Bamford that owns JCB is a leaver and he is just using Johnson to get his message out there just as Airbus did - its the same just a different delivery method

I agree with the last point but unless to disclose every fee paid to a politician for every speech that gets covered by the BBC is impractical - the idea that Johnson is unique even you don't believe that.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:00 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

There is no naivety on my part.
I'm just annoyed at how his speech was reported.

If I come on here and say that you are a top bloke and everyone believes me , that's fine.
However, if you send me £50 to say that you are a top bloke and being greedy and mercenary, I accept your cash, big your reputation up and get my mug on TV saying what a great guy you are, then that wouldn't be right, regardless of how decent a chap you may actually be. They used to call it a bribe but, I wouldn't want to suggest that on here.

Ive just noticed that ive only got 3 reputation points on here mate, maybe I need to start giving out some hard cash to try and improve my pathetic reputation. BUT its not a bribe