Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:06 pm  

dim

IR80 wrote:

Gwneral Elecrion

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:43 pm  

tigertot wrote:

dim

not familiar with the keyboard on a touch screen and typing whilst busy?

another attempted insult.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Johnson voted twice against a deal that is quite frankly leaves us at the mercy of the EU - surely even to you that cannot be correct?

"At the mercy of...".

Your insane rhetoric never ends. How many times until it gets past your Daily Mail dripfeed of hate:
OUR NEIGHBOURS ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES,
THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO US HARM,
THEY DO NOT WANT, NOR HAVE THEY TO DATE, SUBJUGATED US.

Now clearly I don't want us to leave the EU but it's going to happen. But unlike it seems you, I know we can't simply hop out of the modern world because you want to get off in Utopia-Empireland. So to mitigate the damage we will by default end up in some tight relationship, EEA or similar. We'll end up there because the world is devolving into these geographic trading blocs and the UK has neither the size nor the global power to operate outside one of those blocs for very long.

I suspect what you should be really worried about is the coming Return movement which will take us eventually back into the EU but without all the carefully crafted rebates and opt outs which gave Britain such a perfect balance of power and influence inside and outside the EU. Sadly, or perhaps fortunately, most leavers will be gone by the time younger voters get to correct the generational vandalism brought upon them by people who enjoyed all the benefits, economic and cultural, of the EU, then destroyed it for the rest of us.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:48 pm  

IR80 wrote:

oh dear, more insults.

I can't wait for a Gwneral Elecrion and Cringebin to be gone.

Are you one of the voters "fired up" by the latest remarks of this charlatan of a Prime Minister?

This excuse of a man who has the audacity to say the best way to honour Jo Cox is to deliver Brexit!

The same man who is trying to incite the general public to wage war on those politicians who don't want this country to crash out of Europe without a deal. But he's not just speaking to the ordinary Joe's though is he, he's inciting the likes of Thomas Mair to carry out further attacks on elected representatives.

When someone tries to explain what it's like to receive death threats & touches on the loss of her colleague his response is humbug!

It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a rogue M.P. but many other Tories are right behind him, the likes of Duncan Smith for instance, now there's a surprise, another odious right wing zealot.

Anyhow it's all the opposition's fault, if they bent over & accepted this right wing ideology they wouldn't receive any abuse.

What a demoralising state of affairs this has become, I have never been more ashamed to be English.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:10 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

THEY DO NOT WANT, NOR HAVE THEY TO DATE, SUBJUGATED US.

Oh dear.

I suggest you read up on the ideology and words of not only the founders of the EU movement from the 40s onwards, but also some of the modern leaders.

Then take a look at how it began...where it went with Rome, Schengen and Maastricht, where Lisbon takes it...and by extension where it continues to head...and cannot be stopped.

Then listen to the language of those same leaders used when Cameron tried to obtain some form of reform.

If that's what you want, fine. But make sure you understand what it means, in full. I absolutely want no part of their project.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:32 pm  

Cronus wrote:

Oh dear.

I suggest you read up on the ideology and words of not only the founders of the EU movement from the 40s onwards, but also some of the modern leaders.

Then take a look at how it began...where it went with Rome, Schengen and Maastricht, where Lisbon takes it...and by extension where it continues to head...and cannot be stopped.

Then listen to the language of those same leaders used when Cameron tried to obtain some form of reform.

If that's what you want, fine. But make sure you understand what it means, in full. I absolutely want no part of their project.

What's perhaps the saddest part of this is how brainwashed so much of the UK has become by decades of far right propaganda. They genuinely fear our neighbours and deny all the benefits that have accrued through our membership of the EU.
Future generations and history will not judge them, or those who lied to them, kindly.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:54 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

What's perhaps the saddest part of this is how brainwashed so much of the UK has become by decades of far right propaganda. They genuinely fear our neighbours and deny all the benefits that have accrued through our membership of the EU.
Future generations and history will not judge them, or those who lied to them, kindly.

Deary me again.

Not done anything I suggested then? Go away, do what I said, listen to what those who've been driving this European project for 70 years really want, and then tell me you truly love the EU and where it is heading. You think you get it, but clearly you don't.

I certainly don't fear our neighbours, and I fully appreciate the benefits of the EU. I think you'll find most leavers do. However, for me the negatives outweigh the positives, especially when you look 20-50-100 years in the future. As a trading bloc it was wonderful, but for some mysterious reason (not that mysterious if you listen to its founders) they insisted on morphing into the EU we see today. And this is EU-lite compared to what they want. Well, I want no part their ideology.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:00 pm  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

Are you one of the voters "fired up" by the latest remarks of this charlatan of a Prime Minister?

This excuse of a man who has the audacity to say the best way to honour Jo Cox is to deliver Brexit!

The same man who is trying to incite the general public to wage war on those politicians who don't want this country to crash out of Europe without a deal. But he's not just speaking to the ordinary Joe's though is he, he's inciting the likes of Thomas Mair to carry out further attacks on elected representatives.

When someone tries to explain what it's like to receive death threats & touches on the loss of her colleague his response is humbug!

It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a rogue M.P. but many other Tories are right behind him, the likes of Duncan Smith for instance, now there's a surprise, another odious right wing zealot.

Anyhow it's all the opposition's fault, if they bent over & accepted this right wing ideology they wouldn't receive any abuse.

What a demoralising state of affairs this has become, I have never been more ashamed to be English.

Oh god you sound like one of those pathetic hand-wringing Labour MPs today, who in fairness looked as embarrassed as they should.

For several hours last night they screamed and yelled and threw vitriol and hatred at Boris Johnson. They then dragged a dead girl's name into the argument. Yet Johnson is the one under the spotlight today.

I've seen effigies of dead Tories hanging off a bridge and some "rapper" swinging an effigy of the decapitated head of Boris Johnson on stage, to cheers and applause. Not a dickybird of outrage. I've heard McDonnell stoking civil unrest and advocating violence against Tories, including "lynching" McVeigh. Which party is influencing their followers with their behaviour, I wonder?

Similarly, for 3 years leavers have had hate thrown at them, including but far from limited to: xenophobe, racist, facist, nazi, little englander, and far worse. You know that, you've been one of those doing it.

Some MPs are getting hate messages because 3-4 years ago they all voted for a referendum and promised to honour it. In June 2016 they all promised to "honour and respect" the result. They voted for Article 50. Most of them campaigned in 2017 on manifestos to LEAVE. Yet increasingly those on the opposite benches have lied. They've lied and lied and done their utmost to delay, hinder and reverse Brexit, because in fact they don't "honour and respect" the result or indeed those who voted for it. They think they're better and they know better. Many of those MPs "represent" leave constituencies and yet they act all shocked when their constituents get angry?

Futhermore, the perception to those who are already pretty fed up, is that the Supreme Court is on their side, in a judgement that reads as little more than...we find it unlawful for little more reason than 5 weeks is too long and because we can. It really is that weak. Not that I expect you've read it.

You can't behave that way and not expect a backlash. People are angry, yes, but if anything Johnson says is influencing that, it's a tiny influence. You simply cannot continue to p*ss off 17.4m people who expected their vote to be enacted and not expect anger in return.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:23 am  

Cronus wrote:

Yet increasingly those on the opposite benches have lied. They've lied and lied and done their utmost to delay, hinder and reverse Brexit, because in fact they don't "honour and respect" the result or indeed those who voted for it. They think they're better and they know better. Many of those MPs "represent" leave constituencies and yet they act all shocked when their constituents get angry?

FFS, again with the misinformation. The only reason we're still in the EU is because Tory MPs of the hard right voted down the withdrawal agreement. End of discussion. The Tories negotiated a Tory Brexit but couldn't get their MPs to vote it. It's not up to the opposition to vote through Tory legislation.
If they had wanted cross party support they would have come back with a deal which at least played lip service to the concerns of Labour MPs.

The referendum was called by a Conservative Prime Minister to deal with a split in the Conservative party. It was voted for by mostly Conservative voters, the exit deal was negotiated by Conservative ministers and the deal didn't get passed because Conservative MPs didn't support the Conservative bill. But apparently it's the fault of the opposition that this sh1tshow hasn't happened yet.

Those Tories really are big into people taking personal responsibility for their actions; except when it relates to themselves.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:39 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

"At the mercy of...".

Your insane rhetoric never ends. How many times until it gets past your Daily Mail dripfeed of hate:
OUR NEIGHBOURS ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES,
THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO US HARM,
THEY DO NOT WANT, NOR HAVE THEY TO DATE, SUBJUGATED US.

Now clearly I don't want us to leave the EU but it's going to happen. But unlike it seems you, I know we can't simply hop out of the modern world because you want to get off in Utopia-Empireland. So to mitigate the damage we will by default end up in some tight relationship, EEA or similar. We'll end up there because the world is devolving into these geographic trading blocs and the UK has neither the size nor the global power to operate outside one of those blocs for very long.

I suspect what you should be really worried about is the coming Return movement which will take us eventually back into the EU but without all the carefully crafted rebates and opt outs which gave Britain such a perfect balance of power and influence inside and outside the EU. Sadly, or perhaps fortunately, most leavers will be gone by the time younger voters get to correct the generational vandalism brought upon them by people who enjoyed all the benefits, economic and cultural, of the EU, then destroyed it for the rest of us.

Perhaps you need to look more closely at our beautifully crafted deal - not quite the thing of beauty you think it is. I am not bothered either way - the chances of us leaving are so remote as to not even be worth seriously considering.

My gripe is not with the EU which has issues a plenty which even is most ardent supporters would accept it the flagrant disregard of a democratic vote by the establishment who seem to have ridden rough shot over the vote. This is not the first time an initial vote to leave the EU has been overturned.

So what’s next does this give the establishment free reign to decide to ignore democratic votes? We have MPs voted in for one party changing sides in some cases twice what is that about?

The young are naive and easily taken in along with most on the left who spout Socialism as long as the race to the bottom doesn’t impact their cosy lifestyle. If we leave it will be the beginning of the end for the EU which is already a very fragile alliance where the real benefit is shared amongst the usual suspects.