Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:06 pm  

LeythIg wrote:

Not sure how a vote could be considered undemocratic. Reason I would say a second vote should be no deal vs no brexit is that the only thing Parliament can reach a majority on is the fact the deal on the table is no good.

When I say parties can spell out their preferred relationship with the EU, I mean that that could include their terms for leaving the EU (would they want Norway style agreement, canada etc...) if they want their policy is to be out of the EU.

One thing we can agree on, is the commons being full of morons. Cameron being top of the list. Brexit could've been a success, if the referendum was called by a PM that had a vision and a plan for the country outside the EU. Cameron had neither, he called the Referendum purely because he thought it would strengthen his own position. May called a GE for the same reason, then when she didn't get the mandate she wanted, she paid the DUP for her mandate instead.

Sadly, there is no good outcome, thanks to the shambolic nature of how the tories have handled negotiations. I think my preference would be to extend a50 and have a genuine cross party brexit, in an attempt to have one united group negotiate with another. This won't happen though because individuals in all parts of the house are too busy playing party politics. Failing that, assuming a deal cannot be agreed, then I'd favour a second referendum, in which remain has to be an option, rather than asking people to pick out of two options that could make them worse off.

2nd Ref low on my list of preferences, but above No Deal.

The lack of democracy is the asking for another referendum, when the vote you are suggesting has already been taken, so, by you suggesting that staying in the EU should be on the ballot paper is totally disregarding the will of the vote in 2016. If however, the vote was between 2 or 3 options of how to leave then maybe reluctantly I would have to agree, if that shower we vote for cannot agree a deal that is best for our country.

With regards your second paragraph I apologise, if you read how you made your point it reads come out then the parties put the future of the our relationship in their respective policies.Well it did to me

Your 3rd paragraph as you say I can't disagree, Cameron didn't think for one minute that the wise British public would actually have the foresight to want to leave the EU institution.

Again I agree with you May has gone head long into the negotiations (I do admire how hard that lady works though) thinking she could just over rule everything to get her deal through, the tories had to be taken to court to allow our democratic institution that is the house of commons a say in the deal, of course the whole house should be involved. I also agree the negotiations should have been cross party, but only the two main parties ( to many cooks).

Paul

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:15 am  

There is no need for a second referendum, WE HAVE VOTED LEAVE.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:33 am  

POSTL wrote:

It's nothing to do with project fear, the country voted to leave the EU end of, how we leave is now up to the people who we voted in as our representatives.

Back to the question I asked, what happens in the short / medium term?

POSTL wrote:

IWe should all be pressing our local MP's (as I have) as to how in your opinion we should leave the EU, either with the deal on the table at the time or no deal. Therefore, if no deal is such a bad option then you will ensure at least your Councillor would and should carryout the consensus, to be honest as a whole nobody knows what will happen in a no deal scenario, ive heard for and against.

Paul

So have I, the latest being a group of major supermarkets warning of chaos in a "No Deal" scenario . Who are those who believe everything is going to be peachy, surely not J.R.M. & the Dickensian's who make up the E.R.G? Maybe it's that bloke from Wetherspoon's, or perhaps the great Brexit traitor Dyson?

Deal or No Deal, either way those people from the deprived areas who facilitated this Tory right wing coup will still live in depredation, due to British Government policy, nothing to do with the E.U.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:44 am  

Today's news - Mrs May promises that if MP's back the Brady Amendment, she'll go back to the EU and re-open negotiations on the Withdrawal Agreement; having total disregard for the fact that EU officials have said, emphatically, that they won't do that.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:44 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

Back to the question I asked, what happens in the short / medium term?


So have I, the latest being a group of major supermarkets warning of chaos in a "No Deal" scenario . Who are those who believe everything is going to be peachy, surely not J.R.M. & the Dickensian's who make up the E.R.G? Maybe it's that bloke from Wetherspoon's, or perhaps the great Brexit traitor Dyson?

Deal or No Deal, either way those people from the deprived areas who facilitated this Tory right wing coup will still live in depredation, due to British Government policy, nothing to do with the E.U.

Absolutely bang on, the turkeys voted for Christmas and as you rightly say, they (and we) will be right royally stuffed.
After all this time, we still await the positive news.
Control (whatever the feck that actually is), may well be taken back and we will pay less to the EU (although it's worth noting that a trade deal has yet to be struck and we will be £39 billion out of pocket) but, then what.
We increase immigration from outside the EU, which may have been part of the plan from the outset and STILL need to trade with our former friends in the EU.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:00 pm  

Anyone who watched the program about Brexit last can see why we voted to leave - highly paid, unelected bureaucrats deciding what happens in Europe.

If we have another vote and it is again to leave what happens then?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:08 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Cressida Dick - warns that no deal would make us less safe
Former head of MI5 - warns that no deal significantly reduces our domestic and national security
Airbus - will exit the UK in the event of a no deal
A consortium of food retailers warn that no deal will threaten our food security and raise prices
Various international companies warn of the consequences of no deal and make preparations to exit or scale down
EMA closes, losing 900 very highly skilled jobs and dramatically reducing our influence over pharma and medical science

And yet some people would 'prefer' no deal - it beggars belief; unless you're clinging on to the Michael Gove wisdom, that Britain is "sick of experts?"

So if we go to no deal as net importer would we not be better off with the exchange of tariffs?

Plenty of products currently come into the UK from outside of the EU - maybe I am mistaken but I haven't seen huge queues at the ports for clearance of these products - seems almost seamless?

Would we also see firms inside the EU relocating to the UK to manufacture and avoid the WTO tariffs?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:57 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Anyone who watched the program about Brexit last can see why we voted to leave - highly paid, unelected bureaucrats deciding what happens in Europe.

If we have another vote and it is again to leave what happens then?

Unless there is significant proof of a swing in either direction (and I have yet to see one) there should NOT be a second referendum, end of story.
May be we could get rid of parliament altogether and have our very own fascist dictator (Farage).

Unbelievably a guy that was/is too right wing for the Tories is lauded as some kind of working class hero.

As for unelected bureaucrats, we still have the civil service and the House of Lords to fall back on

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:45 pm  

have you ever stood back and watched a spoilt brat cry and whinge to get their way that it makes think FFS take it and FO will you,
I'm getting so sick of listening to these highly payed MPs bickering day by day I wish now I was on another planet

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:41 am  

Nothing better than seeing Yvette Cooper the biggest bully under the Brown regime getting her backside handed to her.

You need to be careful who you upset on the way up because you will meet them on the way down.