Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 10:48 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

I fully agree. What we can do though is make it far more difficult for those known or flagged up to the police and intelligence agencies to operate. We have to stop worrying about the possibility that we may offend somebody from a particular nation or of a particular belief by taking a hard line. This is not about discrimination, it is about doing all that is possible to keep the nation as a whole as safe as possible.

So, are you saying that if someone is being "watched" by the security services, that we intern them.
Lock them up indefinitely, just in case or, in this case ban someone born in Britain, from re entering the UK.
Whilst the sentiment is good, I just dont see how it can happen.
Those that have gone to fight/support in Syria and then come back to the UK, again, do we lock them up in some Guantanamo type compound and again, how long for.
I am not defending these mindless terrorists but, some of the suggestions coming out in the wake of this atrocity just dont work.
Is there a known target where we can "hit back" and what effect would this have ?
Would it help to solve the problem or aid the recruitment process for ISIS. ?

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 11:02 am  

Biff Tannen wrote:

We have to stop worrying about the possibility that we may offend somebody from a particular nation or of a particular belief by taking a hard line.

That's exactly what we do have to worry about; the more disaffected and disenfranchised these people are made to feel, the more open they are to being radicalised and exploited by ISIS and its ilk.

I understand that people feel hurt and want to hit back - but we've been bombing these places for years, and as at least one party leader has had the bottle to point out today, that has played a large part in creating the problem.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 11:10 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

So, are you saying that if someone is being "watched" by the security services, that we intern them.
Lock them up indefinitely, just in case or, in this case ban someone born in Britain, from re entering the UK.
Whilst the sentiment is good, I just dont see how it can happen.
Those that have gone to fight/support in Syria and then come back to the UK, again, do we lock them up in some Guantanamo type compound and again, how long for.
I am not defending these mindless terrorists but, some of the suggestions coming out in the wake of this atrocity just dont work.
Is there a known target where we can "hit back" and what effect would this have ?
Would it help to solve the problem or aid the recruitment process for ISIS. ?

some of these things can happen if there is a will to make them happen. Will they work? impossible to say, but you won't know unless you try.

Obviously ISIS and the extremists out there, we will not be able to completely eliminate... they are living amongst us and those willing to die for a cause by any means, how do you stop that? you can't is the simple answer but again we have to make it as difficult as possible for them to operate and i think that is far from the case at the moment.

[Bullseye]

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 11:31 am  

Or you make a knee jerk reaction and make things far worse because you did it with no idea of whether it would work or not.

If it's impossible to say then don't do it. The consequences are too serious for making policy on a whim. You need to properly weigh up the evidence.

There is no simple solution IMO. A lot of things need to happen and it can't just be done in this country. It needs to happen elsewhere too.

[Bullseye]

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 11:54 am  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... um=twitter Maybe security services need to improve a bit too?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... um=twitter Maybe security services need to improve a bit too?

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 12:14 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

some of these things can happen if there is a will to make them happen. Will they work? impossible to say, but you won't know unless you try.

Obviously ISIS and the extremists out there, we will not be able to completely eliminate... they are living amongst us and those willing to die for a cause by any means, how do you stop that? you can't is the simple answer but again we have to make it as difficult as possible for them to operate and i think that is far from the case at the moment.

How exactly do you plan to "make it as difficult as possible for them to operate" ?
Empty words and idle threats may make some people feel better but, it's just rhetoric.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 12:39 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Maybe security services need to improve a bit too?

They do but isn't the official line at the moment 3,000 plus on the flagged up list? that's a lot of fish to keep in the net.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 12:39 pm  

bren2k wrote:

That's exactly what we do have to worry about; the more disaffected and disenfranchised these people are made to feel, the more open they are to being radicalised and exploited by ISIS and its ilk.

I understand that people feel hurt and want to hit back - but we've been bombing these places for years, and as at least one party leader has had the bottle to point out today, that has played a large part in creating the problem.

What do you suggest we just let ISIS walk in anywhere they like and do whatever they want? These are not people with whom you can have a rational discussion.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 12:52 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

How exactly do you plan to "make it as difficult as possible for them to operate" ?
Empty words and idle threats may make some people feel better but, it's just rhetoric.

Empty threats and idle words from who? If you are referring to our establishment you are bang on.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Fri May 26, 2017 12:57 pm  

bren2k wrote:

That's exactly what we do have to worry about; the more disaffected and disenfranchised these people are made to feel, the more open they are to being radicalised and exploited by ISIS and its ilk.

I understand that people feel hurt and want to hit back - but we've been bombing these places for years, and as at least one party leader has had the bottle to point out today, that has played a large part in creating the problem.

I don't think bombing is the answer, never was never will be and it is the contributor as to why we are where we are today imo.