Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:29 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

If he didn't have to tell?

How simplistic.

''Hello love'' (as he sidles over to the bar). Do you fancy a Babycham and a quick sh@g later? Bythe way, just to let you know if this turns out to be more than a one night stand, I murdered a young kid when I was ten and I've been convicted of downloading child porn...Go get your coat petal.''

There would be a few nutters who would be excited by this, unfortunately.

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:54 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

If he didn't have to tell?

How simplistic.

''Hello love'' (as he sidles over to the bar). Do you fancy a Babycham and a quick sh@g later? Bythe way, just to let you know if this turns out to be more than a one night stand, I murdered a young kid when I was ten and

• was arrested for affray after a drunken street fight ,
• was cautioned over possession of cocaine
• convicted of distributing indecent 42 images in February 2008.
• convicted of distributing indecent photographs in February 2010
• convicted of loading 57 pornographic pictures of children on to my computer between February 2009 and February 2010.
• was ordered to sign the sex offenders register for 10 years as a convicted paedophile,
• am under a sexual offences prevention order for five years.
• have been barred from working with children for life

...Go get your coat petal.''

Edited for accuracy

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:42 am  

Mintball wrote:

On Venables....

He was nine when the murder was committed.

I was under the impression the age for criminal responsibility in England and Wales was 10

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:05 am  

rover49 wrote:

There would be a few nutters who would be excited by this, unfortunately.

Exactly, therefore if he has the urge to procreate, it'll happen.
That's unless we have him constantly under surveillance by our secret services, ready to jump in whenever he gets a bulge in his kegs.

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:21 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

It is harsh, and I cant say anyone of us would really know how we would react in a similar situation and Im sure we all sympathise with her.

But from what I have heard her say, and what James’ father has said as well, they both seem completely consumed by bitterness and vengeance.

Are you surprised by this?

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:41 am  

Mintball wrote:
On Venables....

He was nine when the murder was committed.


Thomson and Venables were both 10 when the murder was committed and 11 when they were tried. Tried, incidentally (and shamefully), as adults in an adult court.

[Durham Giant]

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:49 am  

fatboystu wrote:

does it make a difference that he was a kid when he committed this evil act?

this week i've read the court report about what they did to that poor child, i've read the arresting officers interview in the paper and also his interview with panorama, last night i sat and cried reading what they had done. it makes my blood boil. to try in anyway to excuse their actions on the fact that they were children themselves and that they were abused is laughable!

there are plenty of abused children who grow up and never abuse. my own brother in law was abused, he grew up and became a social worker working in childrens services trying to stop the same things that happened to him.

j

At what point do you draw the line where do they become culpable, the abuse they suffered as children is not an explanation.

I have had a couple of cases recently which illustrate the pointlessness of your argument.

3 children growing up in a house full of Domestic violence. The best example is the dad who poured petrol on the the family cat and then set it on fire in front of the kids to scare and intimidate the family.
The eldest is 4 . When in foster care he tried to drown his sister aged 3 in the bath. Should he have been prosecuted for attempted murder . Is his abuse not an explanation

3 children aged 7, 4 and 3. Living with a nutter ( my term rather than the PC version) who is mad on the military, martial arts etc. Brought his kids up to be tough. wants to go and live in America so he can get guns and live in a log cabin waiting for armageddon.

Kids in foster care now BUT are so violent towards each other they can NEVER live together or with other children, they have big problems at school fighting etc. The 3 year old has been assessed by child psychologist as having NO internal controls on his behaviour and an inability to respond to external controls. Are they to be prosecuted for what they have done is there abuse an explanation.

In response to your comment about not every child who is abused goes on to abuse you are right. BUt reserach does show that of adults who have gone on to abuse children ( sexually) 50% were abused as children and 50% were not. It does however raise the issue of what else went on in their childhoods. It is not a justification but it is an explanaition of why things go wrong with kids.


Just out of interest a squaddie who comes back from Afghanistan suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome ( PTSD)and commits an offence is his PTSD and army experiences an explanation or a mitigation

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:52 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

At what point do you draw the line where do they become culpable, the abuse they suffered as children is not an explanation.

I have had a couple of cases recently which illustrate the pointlessness of your argument.

3 children growing up in a house full of Domestic violence. The best example is the dad who poured petrol on the the family cat and then set it on fire in front of the kids to scare and intimidate the family.
The eldest is 4 . When in foster care he tried to drown his sister aged 3 in the bath. Should he have been prosecuted for attempted murder . Is his abuse not an explanation

3 children aged 7, 4 and 3. Living with a nutter ( my term rather than the PC version) who is mad on the military, martial arts etc. Brought his kids up to be tough. wants to go and live in America so he can get guns and live in a log cabin waiting for armageddon.

Kids in foster care now BUT are so violent towards each other they can NEVER live together or with other children, they have big problems at school fighting etc. The 3 year old has been assessed by child psychologist as having NO internal controls on his behaviour and an inability to respond to external controls. Are they to be prosecuted for what they have done is there abuse an explanation.

In response to your comment about not every child who is abused goes on to abuse you are right. BUt reserach does show that of adults who have gone on to abuse children ( sexually) 50% were abused as children and 50% were not. It does however raise the issue of what else went on in their childhoods. It is not a justification but it is an explanaition of why things go wrong with kids.

This is stating the obvious, but despite that fact, sadly it isn't obvious to very many. The clearest example I can give is comparing abuse with religion. A child brought up within a fundy religious environment will very likely be a fundy religious case themselves. It is not genetic, it is learned behaviour. So I'd say that a child which learns that violence and torture is OK in that their parents do it, and/or is the way adults deal with things to get their way, may well grow up ingrained that that's just how life is, and that that's normal human behaviour.

Durham Giant wrote:

Just out of interest a squaddie who comes back from Afghanistan suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome ( PTSD)and commits an offence is his PTSD and army experiences an explanation or a mitigation

It might to a degree be part of both, but I'd say suffering from serious PTSD would tend to stop the unfortunate squaddie from functioning normally or from interacting with society normally. The sort of crimes which might b associated with it would be crimes relating to loss of control. It isn't a "defence" in our system unless you can (and want to) prove "insanity" - not often a plus - so yes, mitigation and explanation is what it would be.

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:02 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I need some "c*ck",

I've never understood this. Would accommodating a penis suddenly change a person's outlook on such matters? Does your outlook change in degrees according to the amount or size of the penis? I think we need to know.

Re: Jon Venables and the ugly vigilante mob : Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:57 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

I've never understood this. Would accommodating a penis suddenly change a person's outlook on such matters? Does your outlook change in degrees according to the amount or size of the penis? I think we need to know.

I enquired about certain other delicate issues relating to this episode yesterday.
I believe they were removed from public consumption.