Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 7:35 am  

rover49 wrote:

She has been tapped up by a few schools where she would have an easier time of it in areas of mostly middle class families with little or no SEN needs, but she has always refused because she knows these kids she teaches need good teachers who care and she is reluctant to abandon them, but she fears that although they know they have maintained (or bettered) there standards since last year it is inevitable that they will be deemed a failing school under the new Gove directive and be forced (against the will of parents, teachers and governors) into academy status.

The question being of course, what private limited company would see investment value in a school like your daughters ?

If you are paid by results then clearly you target the "cream" and disregard what remains.

On the other hand if you are paid by "improvement" then its in the sellers interests to downgrade the product as low as possible to make it attractive to a purchaser who can then claim an impressive "turnaround" after they purchase - bonuses all round.

Just to remind ourselves, these are children we are selling.

Just to make a memo to ourselves - check what jobs Gove is offered after 2015.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 9:01 am  

I've changed my mind.
I would happily punch the odious little turd until he lost consciousness.
Anyone who knows my posting history and so has a general feel for me will tell you that for me that is VERY strong.

Goves ideology will wreck english schooling.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 12:44 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Universities complain that rigour in the groundings of such subjects as the sciences has been neglected.

That's not the fault of the pupils or the teachers, though, but – as I mentioned earlier – constant political tinkering.

Yep, and I think at least partly the fault of a packed full (and dull) curriculum that doesn't allow teachers and schools much, if any, leeway in how to teach.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 4:23 pm  

Him wrote:

Yep, and I think at least partly the fault of a packed full (and dull) curriculum that doesn't allow teachers and schools much, if any, leeway in how to teach.

I'd go with that to an extent.

Although I genuinely believe there is a core of subjects that all young people should have the opportunity to be introduced to. And unfortunately, it seems to me, we have lost sight of education in that kind of way, and replaced it with a strictly utilitarian version - not least as employers whinge about school leavers not immediately 'being ready', for the workplace.

I remember a year or so ago, the particular complaint was that school leavers did not have skills in dealing with customers. You do wonder how anyone in my generation ever coped. In the olden days, I don't think any employer imagined that a school leaver was absolutely ready for any job - they required training of some variety. But some employers increasingly seem to view that as the state's responsibility and not that of themselves.

But I do also think that there needs to be a capacity to split children up into groups/classes/subjects that are appropriate to them.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 4:25 pm  

And then a. Different sort of thing: I remember reading, two, the years ago, about a 14-year-old lad who just totally vexed off with school - no interest - but found himself work as a gardener and absolutely loved it.

And there was a furore about trying to drive him back into formal education, which seemed, in that case, to not be appropriate.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 5:27 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I'd go with that to an extent.

Although I genuinely believe there is a core of subjects that all young people should have the opportunity to be introduced to. And unfortunately, it seems to me, we have lost sight of education in that kind of way, and replaced it with a strictly utilitarian version - not least as employers whinge about school leavers not immediately 'being ready', for the workplace.

I remember a year or so ago, the particular complaint was that school leavers did not have skills in dealing with customers. You do wonder how anyone in my generation ever coped. In the olden days, I don't think any employer imagined that a school leaver was absolutely ready for any job - they required training of some variety. But some employers increasingly seem to view that as the state's responsibility and not that of themselves.

But I do also think that there needs to be a capacity to split children up into groups/classes/subjects that are appropriate to them.

Spot on, I agree entirely with having a curriculum but its just too full to allow teachers freedom to do something related but a bit different, or go on more school trips.
It's a ridiculous position many employers are taking at the moment. They appear unwilling to train employees on the job and want "the perfect candidate" whilst paying minimum wage.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 6:11 pm  

Mintball wrote:

And then a. Different sort of thing: I remember reading, two, the years ago, about a 14-year-old lad who just totally vexed off with school - no interest - but found himself work as a gardener and absolutely loved it.

And there was a furore about trying to drive him back into formal education, which seemed, in that case, to not be appropriate.

You could be speaking of Alan Titchmarsh, left school at 15 and was lucky that his father knew one of the gardeners at Ilkley Town Council which by coincidence happened to be the only thing that the young Titchmarsh was interested in - three years later he was persuaded to go to college to study for a city & guilds but still wasn't keen on academia.

Many would look down on those who mow the grass in their local park though.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 10:59 pm  

The sum total of Gove's idiocy

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Wed May 22, 2013 11:01 pm  

My daughter has just had her first day of OFSTED and she said that the inspectors asked for 12 literacy books for pupils who were NOT in the English as Additional Language category, to which she replied that she only had 3 (87% of her school is from an ethnic, non British born background). You would have thought that the inspectors would have turned up with some idea of the general make up of the school population.

She is still no wiser as to 'why' this was required.

Re: Gove and his claims about teenagers' ignorance : Fri May 24, 2013 11:54 am  

Mintball wrote:

Ignoring the fact that you said "a bit of ..."

It's a major work of fantasy fiction and a jolly good romp. The creation of the languages was an extraordinary feat. Which doesn't stop it being, IMO, overrated.

It shares with the likes of John Betjeman a rather reactionary attitude toward industrial and urban Britain. The Shire is England's countryside; Mordor is the industrial England – in essence, then, the midlands and north.

He cribbed from other sources – not in itself a problem, but hilariously, JRR himself claimed that the only resemblance to Wagner's Ring cycle was that both included a ring and rings are round, although various literary scholars have pointed out that this is a tad disingenuous – not least in the fact that both were influenced by a range of source materials, including Volsunga and the Nibelungenlied, but also in that Wagner had imbued his ring with certain powers, which was not something that was in the original myths and legends.

But my point would be, in essence, that LOTR fails as 'great literature' because it is little more than what it is (and it's arguably over long and indulgent). That's not a snobbish comment on genre fiction, though: I'd rate Terry Pratchett far, far more highly than JRR – simply because the bulk of the Discworld novels go beyond straightforward fantasy tales and have something to actually tell us about the human condition. You don't have to read them like that, but the satire is most certainly there. They're also deceptively simply written, and yet can have you laughing on one page and crying on the next.

Now there is one of my only two real annoyances with anything Harry Potter. The massive praise and hype lavished upon JK Rowling as a 'great' British author was IMO hugely disproportionate to the quality of the work, whilst Pratchett was the opposite by the general public/media at the time. I also think that it's incredibly sad that (even though his campaigning has been excellent and probably important for raising awareness for the issues) to most he is probably known for having Alzheimer's and being in favour of assisted suicide rather than his work.