Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:00 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Especially Davies himself

I'm just pleased that we have such a strong and stable government at such an important time for the nation
2 years to try and reach agreement within the cabinet and the idiots in Westminster cant even manage that.
I've always been in the remain camp but, if we are leaving the EU and customs union then, lets at least have a deal that works, instead of blended crap.
Oh, how I wish Mr Cronus was here to tell us how it's all going to plan and this is just part of the negotiation process

It's all going to plan and this is just part of the negotiation process.

Couldn't care less about Johnson but disappointed in Davis, who I always felt had integrity and intelligence, whatever your view of Brexit. I suppose his integrity got the better of him but it's no wonder the quality of our politicians is pretty dire given the culture of resignation. I'd rather have seen him fight it out.

The thing is, it will probably change very little. From what I believe May and her closest circle have always been steering the negotiations from No.10 and have actually carried out most of the talks, so the message to the EU won't really change.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:02 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Cameron's idea that the referendum would sort out the issue once and for all is looking really good now.

The referendum would have worked but, only with a remain vote ie,nothing would have changed.

The real difficulty for The Tories (and it would have been the same for Labour) is that, the Referendum was not along political party lines and both Labour and The Tories have a fair mix of Leave and Remain voters.

You have to say also that, Corbyn has been far from convincing with his remain stance and the bloke must have more splinters than Arnold Laver's wood yard after staying on the fence for so long.
I believe that his current position would be to have some sort of customs union and if he has such a great plan, perhaps, for the good of the nation, he should share it with the wider public and maybe we could reach a deal.
Sadly, I douby that it exists, other than in his own mind but, it does allow him to pretend that he has a plan, ironically, this is exactly what Mrs May has been pretending but, it seems that she has been found wanting.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:26 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The referendum would have worked but, only with a remain vote ie,nothing would have changed.

The real difficulty for The Tories (and it would have been the same for Labour) is that, the Referendum was not along political party lines and both Labour and The Tories have a fair mix of Leave and Remain voters.

You have to say also that, Corbyn has been far from convincing with his remain stance and the bloke must have more splinters than Arnold Laver's wood yard after staying on the fence for so long.
I believe that his current position would be to have some sort of customs union and if he has such a great plan, perhaps, for the good of the nation, he should share it with the wider public and maybe we could reach a deal.
Sadly, I douby that it exists, other than in his own mind but, it does allow him to pretend that he has a plan, ironically, this is exactly what Mrs May has been pretending but, it seems that she has been found wanting.

I reckon my cat would do a better job, and all he cares about is the increased cost of prawns. The "establishment" are all useles, lost what little faith I had in "the system"!

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:32 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The referendum would have worked but, only with a remain vote ie,nothing would have changed.

The real difficulty for The Tories (and it would have been the same for Labour) is that, the Referendum was not along political party lines and both Labour and The Tories have a fair mix of Leave and Remain voters.

You have to say also that, Corbyn has been far from convincing with his remain stance and the bloke must have more splinters than Arnold Laver's wood yard after staying on the fence for so long.
I believe that his current position would be to have some sort of customs union and if he has such a great plan, perhaps, for the good of the nation, he should share it with the wider public and maybe we could reach a deal.
Sadly, I douby that it exists, other than in his own mind but, it does allow him to pretend that he has a plan, ironically, this is exactly what Mrs May has been pretending but, it seems that she has been found wanting.

Except of course had Labour won in 2015 there wouldn't have been a referendum. If there'd been another coalition (Cameron and Osborne's preferred outcome IMO) there wouldn't have been a referendum. And if the various Remain factions in the Commons can get their act together, there still may not be a Brexit. Brexit is already a disaster for the UK, if it actually happens it'll make the thirties recession seem like a picnic.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:44 pm  

Cronus wrote:

It's all going to plan and this is just part of the negotiation process.

Couldn't care less about Johnson but disappointed in Davis, who I always felt had integrity and intelligence, whatever your view of Brexit. I suppose his integrity got the better of him but it's no wonder the quality of our politicians is pretty dire given the culture of resignation. I'd rather have seen him fight it out.

The thing is, it will probably change very little. From what I believe May and her closest circle have always been steering the negotiations from No.10 and have actually carried out most of the talks, so the message to the EU won't really change.

Davis isn't even close to being bright.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:40 pm  

billypop wrote:

Davis isn't even close to being bright.

You may be correct. I suppose when one is debating against people like Diane Abbott, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Angela Rayner, Richard Burgon, Dawn Butler, Margaret Greenwood, Andrew Gwynne, Nia Griffith and Barry Gardiner, it's quite easy to come across as a feckin' political genius.

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is particularly stupid, but he's made a career out of being a useful idiot.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:51 am  

Classic whataboutery.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:15 am  

majorhound wrote:

Except of course had Labour won in 2015 there wouldn't have been a referendum. If there'd been another coalition (Cameron and Osborne's preferred outcome IMO) there wouldn't have been a referendum. And if the various Remain factions in the Commons can get their act together, there still may not be a Brexit. Brexit is already a disaster for the UK, if it actually happens it'll make the thirties recession seem like a picnic.

You may well be right and IF we do stay in the EU, we will be doing do with a small fraction of the influence that we had previously.
Had it not been for the warring factions within the Tory party and their fear of losing ground to Mr Farage, there certainly wouldn't have been a referendum but, it's difficult to imagine how much more of a mess could have been made here.

If we get out of the EU, it will be only just and if we stay in, we are a dead man walking with zero credibility.

We have Tory grandees moving their funds off shore now to protect themselves against the fall out, a real show of the faith that they have in their rulers.

All we have to look forward to is Boris and Gove, getting back into bed with each other to save the nation

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:24 am  

billypop wrote:

Davis isn't even close to being bright.

Nor does he have much integrity. Threatened to resign 5 times. He was promoted far beyond the level of his own incompetence. He knew he would never get the chance to operate at such an influential level so put up with being played May's fool.
As least he's got more integrity than Johnson. Repeatedly betrayed his own family, betrayed his constituents over an issue he would lay down his life for, now betrayed his own leader. Classic Old Etonian narcissist.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:21 am  

tigertot wrote:

Nor does he have much integrity. Threatened to resign 5 times. He was promoted far beyond the level of his own incompetence. He knew he would never get the chance to operate at such an influential level so put up with being played May's fool.
As least he's got more integrity than Johnson. Repeatedly betrayed his own family, betrayed his constituents over an issue he would lay down his life for, now betrayed his own leader. Classic Old Etonian narcissist.

A classic example of politicians serving their constituents and the country, not.
The vast majority of politicians do so for their own benefit and sadly, the good ones, like Jo Cox, are few and far between.

Maybe anarchy is the only way forward