Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:52 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Interesting spin, again.

First of all, we're not out yet and the claims of 800k jobs may still be proven to be correct - we will have to wait and see.
However, NOBODY is predicting that we will be financially better off, post Brexit.

Labours version of Brexit includes a customs union and perhaps if this had been considered or negotiated within the deal, there may have been a little more support from the opposition benches and the DUP would certainly have been happier.

Spending pledges on both sides are already getting out of control and the election campaign hasn't even officially begun. the 60bn + 250bn are staggering figures though and that's before the usual domestic needs - NHS, Education, Housing, Police etc, etc.

Mind you, we are all well used for false pledges during political campaigns, not to mention vote leave breaking the law on spending during their campaign.

The modern style seems to be just say whatever is needed to win as there seems to be little consequence for fabricating policies or spending pledges.

Completely agree we will be worse off initially if we leave. Its the price to be paid for leaving. If the immigration had been as it is now we would voted to remain.

Labour's spending pledges are incredible - Long-Bailey on Ridge this morning confirmed the £60bn and a future £190bn on house improvements. I would have thought there are better uses of £60bn than cavity wall insulation but there you go.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:19 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We were also told that 800k jobs would go, our houses would lose value and we would need an emergency budget such was the calamitous nature of the decision. Perhaps if this hadn't been said the leave majority would have been greater.

Jeez I must have imagined the emergency interest rate cut, billions ploughed in through quantitative easing and plunging exchange rates.

Economics is complicated and its difficult to explain the concept of ceteris paribus as a soundbite but politicians disingenuously pretending we didn't have an economic shock that required a massive reaction deserve contempt. It was a shock and a reaction which made us all worse off, witnessed in how we plunged from top to bottom of the economic growth charts.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:10 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: Completely agree we will be worse off initially if we leave. Its the price to be paid for leaving. If the immigration had been as it is now we would voted to remain. What do you mean if immigration had been as it is now? Net migration has changed very little and is almost exactly the same as it was 10 years ago https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... k-47400679

Sal Paradise wrote: Completely agree we will be worse off initially if we leave. Its the price to be paid for leaving. If the immigration had been as it is now we would voted to remain. What do you mean if immigration had been as it is now? Net migration has changed very little and is almost exactly the same as it was 10 years ago https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... k-47400679

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:33 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Completely agree we will be worse off initially if we leave. Its the price to be paid for leaving. If the immigration had been as it is now we would voted to remain.

Labour's spending pledges are incredible - Long-Bailey on Ridge this morning confirmed the £60bn and a future £190bn on house improvements. I would have thought there are better uses of £60bn than cavity wall insulation but there you go.

Why the hell should there be "a price for leaving" ?
We should only be leaving if life is going to be better outside of the EU and whilst immigration was a major source of concern for many who voted leave , whipped up be Farage and the right wing press, there was little control on the numbers entering the UK from outside the EU, with numbers exceeding 300,000 and until Farage stirred up a political frenzy, most people were unaware of this, never mind wanting a fundamental change because of it.
Even after 3 years there is little sign that life will be better outside and you really would have thought that having had so much time to consider the situation, there would have been someone, anyone, who could even try to convince us of a more prosperous future on the outside but, it's still incredibly quiet on this front, even from the most ardent Brexiteers.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:53 am  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote: What do you mean if immigration had been as it is now? Net migration has changed very little and is almost exactly the same as it was 10 years ago https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... k-47400679 What I meant was there was a lot of ill feeling towards immigrants and their impact of wages - that sentiment doesn't appear to have the same element of venom that it did in 2016.

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote: What do you mean if immigration had been as it is now? Net migration has changed very little and is almost exactly the same as it was 10 years ago https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... k-47400679 What I meant was there was a lot of ill feeling towards immigrants and their impact of wages - that sentiment doesn't appear to have the same element of venom that it did in 2016.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:02 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Why the hell should there be "a price for leaving" ?
We should only be leaving if life is going to be better outside of the EU and whilst immigration was a major source of concern for many who voted leave , whipped up be Farage and the right wing press, there was little control on the numbers entering the UK from outside the EU, with numbers exceeding 300,000 and until Farage stirred up a political frenzy, most people were unaware of this, never mind wanting a fundamental change because of it.
Even after 3 years there is little sign that life will be better outside and you really would have thought that having had so much time to consider the situation, there would have been someone, anyone, who could even try to convince us of a more prosperous future on the outside but, it's still incredibly quiet on this front, even from the most ardent Brexiteers.

Sometimes you have to go backwards in order to move forwards - sporting teams are an example they remove older more experienced players to give youngsters a go - Leeds Rhinos are a classic example - ultimately it led to the most successful era in the club. Businesses invest heavily in new products which don't reach their full potential for many years after - pharmaceuticals being one example.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:04 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What I meant was there was a lot of ill feeling towards immigrants and their impact of wages - that sentiment doesn't appear to have the same element of venom that it did in 2016.

Just where did that "venom" come from ?

Farage and the Tory fecking press peddling their particular type of right wing narrative, taking full advantage of 10 years of Austerity and general ill feeling - it was an easy sell and helped avoid any "punishment" for those that actually heaped the misery on us all - some of whom are now making fortunes gambling on the future value of Sterling.
To use Woody Woodpeckers catch phrase "so long sucker" - as I said, an easy sell.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:12 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Just where did that "venom" come from ?

Farage and the Tory fecking press peddling their particular type of right wing narrative, taking full advantage of 10 years of Austerity and general ill feeling - it was an easy sell and helped avoid any "punishment" for those that actually heaped the misery on us all - some of whom are now making fortunes gambling on the future value of Sterling.
To use Woody Woodpeckers catch phrase "so long sucker" - as I said, an easy sell.

I agree with your synopsis re. the ill feeling towards immigrants - not sure about the gambling on the pound.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:38 am  

Sal Paradise wrote: not sure about the gambling on the pound. It's pretty easy to be sure about it - the facts are out there; Crispin Odey for example, is the most egregious example. The facts are freely available.

Sal Paradise wrote: not sure about the gambling on the pound. It's pretty easy to be sure about it - the facts are out there; Crispin Odey for example, is the most egregious example. The facts are freely available.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:27 am  

bren2k wrote: It's pretty easy to be sure about it - the facts are out there; Crispin Odey for example, is the most egregious example. The facts are freely available. I am not say it is not happening - one things is certain he will make a shed load more money if Labour get in - the £ will collapse.

bren2k wrote: It's pretty easy to be sure about it - the facts are out there; Crispin Odey for example, is the most egregious example. The facts are freely available. I am not say it is not happening - one things is certain he will make a shed load more money if Labour get in - the £ will collapse.