Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:05 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Despite what some claim we are still mostly independent economies who just enjoy the benefits of very favourable trading. Saying another European economy is doing worse than the UK as some sort of proof that the EU is the reason is a complete straw man.

Obviously we are all linked as part of the European and global economies but what happens domestically and globally is a lot more important to how an economy fares than what happens at an EU level.

Still, whilst we're here, this is the graph - we were travelling along ok until something seismic happened in 2016, from which we have never recovered.



You keep saying this but never come up with anything other than some weird insinuation. I'm trying to work out what it is you're afraid of which will happen almost overnight.

Answer the point is the German economy in recession? Nobody could ever predict where we will be outside of the EU because it has never happened so all predictions are just economic models and we all know how accurate they are. We went into the EU to ease trade when every country had their own currency - it was never envisaged that the EU would evolve into a super state whereby our laws are set in central Europe over which we have a very limited input.

If we had left in 2016 with no deal we would have been 2 years down the road of rebuilding our economy outside of the EU as it is we in Hotel California - sadly.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:45 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Answer the point is the German economy in recession?

I don't see the relevance to be honest.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:44 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Answer the point is the German economy in recession?

What does it matter if it is? You sound like a Daily Express reader to me. Maybe the economic success of the UK and Germany is the World War III their readership dream about. Germany in RECESSION - Yaaayyy! German business is BOOMING - Booooooo!

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:54 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If we had left in 2016 with no deal we would have been 2 years down the road of rebuilding our economy outside of the EU as it is we in Hotel California - sadly.

If we'd left 2 years ago, our ecconomy would be in recession and everyone would know that, financially, we'd have been better off staying in.

In the time that has passed since the referendum, everyone now admits that, we would be worse off on the outside.
Of course, some of the right wing ERG and their big money backers try to put a brave face on things but, even this is done with fingers firmly crossed.
I suppose it's one way to keep the masses in their place.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:45 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

If we'd left 2 years ago, our ecconomy would be in recession and everyone would know that, financially, we'd have been better off staying in.

In the time that has passed since the referendum, everyone now admits that, we would be worse off on the outside.
Of course, some of the right wing ERG and their big money backers try to put a brave face on things but, even this is done with fingers firmly crossed.
I suppose it's one way to keep the masses in their place.

I agree about the financial position - most agree but I don't think we voted to leave because of the money it was about who controls the country and the longer we have been in the EU the more control we have given away - even you as a down trodden mass - must accept that point.

Wait until Corbyn gets in and then you really will no about keeping the masses in their place

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I don't see the relevance to be honest.

Of course you wouldn't - what it says is prominent membership of the EU doesn't prevent you from economic downturn.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:56 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I agree about the financial position - most agree but I don't think we voted to leave because of the money it was about who controls the country and the longer we have been in the EU the more control we have given away - even you as a down trodden mass - must accept that point.

Wait until Corbyn gets in and then you really will no about keeping the masses in their place

To be honest, I'm not overly bothered about who is "in control", I would prefer to have the most prosperous and safest future for my family and friends, and the rest of the world as well.
Does being outside the EU give me any of these, I dont think so.
As far as taking back control

The UK will remain as the puppet of the USA, as it has been since the second world war and that is very, very unlikely to change.
The whole Brexit issue is just political posturing, with some whipped up hysteria thrown in for good measure.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:57 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

To be honest, I'm not overly bothered about who is "in control", I would prefer to have the most prosperous and safest future for my family and friends, and the rest of the world as well.
Does being outside the EU give me any of these, I dont think so.
As far as taking back control

The UK will remain as the puppet of the USA, as it has been since the second world war and that is very, very unlikely to change.
The whole Brexit issue is just political posturing, with some whipped up hysteria thrown in for good measure.

All absolutely fair points.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:00 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Of course you wouldn't - what it says is prominent membership of the EU doesn't prevent you from economic downturn.

What a completely transparent straw man.
Membership of the EU doesn't protect a country from global trends or domestic economic troubles. Nobody ever said it did.

Memberships makes everyone incrementally better off, on all sides of the deal, it's a mutually beneficial arrangement that lifts all ships but certainly doesn't prevent them going through stormy waters.

Leaving that mutually beneficial deal with nothing more than an "it'll be alright" amount of thought and preparation is the economically suicidal bit. We'll all endure a recession and in the long run will be poorer, have less influence on regulations which affect us, less say on standards our companies have to adhere to and a diminished standing in the world.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (part 4) : Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:45 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

What a completely transparent straw man.
Membership of the EU doesn't protect a country from global trends or domestic economic troubles. Nobody ever said it did.

Memberships makes everyone incrementally better off, on all sides of the deal, it's a mutually beneficial arrangement that lifts all ships but certainly doesn't prevent them going through stormy waters.

Leaving that mutually beneficial deal with nothing more than an "it'll be alright" amount of thought and preparation is the economically suicidal bit. We'll all endure a recession and in the long run will be poorer, have less influence on regulations which affect us, less say on standards our companies have to adhere to and a diminished standing in the world.

That is one valid point of view.

If you think we have any influence on what goes on in the EU I think you are badly mistaken - Cameron voted against the EU Treaty - the EU simply ignored him despite the fact he was supposed to have a veto.

Membership does is allow the richer countries to prop up the poorer ones in the longer-term hope that they prosper - not sure that is happening but the theory is good.